off topic: I`ve recently started modeling/mapping a d3 map for the first time in ages so I`m a little rusty.

my question: does anyone know why the clip faces on a terrain .ase model don`t behave the same as they do on brushes, using the same d3 materials?

I`ve modeled a rock platform with cracks in the floor, and although their not big enough for the player to fall through, I don`t want either of his legs to drop down, which is very noticeable in 3rd person mode.

the clip material I`m using on both the brushes and model is:

textures/common/clip_plusmovables, which I found in the invisible.mtr.

on the brushes it blocks the player and his weapon shell casings, and allows his bullets and grenades to pass through.

but on the model it doesn`t block the player, but it does his weapon shell casings.

the shell casings aren`t important but I need to the other properties.

You're stuffed I'm afraid, same problem was a carry over from Quake 3 editing (as you know) clips simply refuse to work, if at all, on models; never understood why then either.

The upshot is that if you need 'collision' then you'll need to leave the model 'auto clipped' or create lowpoly collision hull profiles. Infact, the whole od the D3 engine is really dodge when it comes to models, it's actually *worse* than Quake3 - if you 'pile' models ontop of each they will break (like piling a load of big stones together). Models that clip into other models have a tendancy to 'break' collision as well, you'll pop through meshs.

As you can probably tell I know this problem very well and it frustrates the development process no end (not to mention *******g me off something rotten!)

understood and thanks for the heads up kat.

btw, I`m actually going to release this hell map when it`s done as I haven`t worked on a free public map for ages and thought it was about time I did.

and although the mesh modeling in blender is easy for me now, I`m sure there will be a few mapping questions I`ll need to ask, but I`ll post them in the d3w level editing forums, rather then in this blender sub forum.

saying that I`m also thinking of starting a wip thread, which might interest some of the guys in here as it will have a lot of terrain modeling in it, as well as a few props I intend to build for this map.

kat, what is the method you would use to fix if a pile of large stone meshes are breaking collision detection?

I ask because I can imagine I`ll be running into this soon, considering I intend to have large stone blocks embedded into some of the rocks or piled on top of each other, like in the official d3 hell maps.

ot: I recently dl you vid tuts on using ik solvers in blender, which is something I`ve just started learning to use and kit89 wrote a text tut to help me. but I was pleasantly surprised to see that I could follow your vid tuts very easily even though they didn`t have sound, so I recommend anyone getting into character rigging and animating to watch them, as it`s a lot easier to follow then a list of written instructions imo.

ratty redemption wrote:

kat, what is the method you would use to fix if a pile of large stone meshes are breaking collision detection?

I ask because I can imagine I`ll be running into this soon, considering I intend to have large stone blocks embedded into some of the rocks or piled on top of each other, like in the official d3 hell maps.

The only way I 'fixed' that recently was constantly moving, deleteing, replacing and compiling the map. The only other way would be to place the models where you want them and then export that section back out to OBJ to reedit the models so they're custom tweaked for the area (removing dead tris and all that)

Quote:

ot: I recently dl you vid tuts on using ik solvers in blender, which is something I`ve just started learning to use and kit89 wrote a text tut to help me. but I was pleasantly surprised to see that I could follow your vid tuts very easily even though they didn`t have sound, so I recommend anyone getting into character rigging and animating to watch them, as it`s a lot easier to follow then a list of written instructions imo.

Thanks, I'm still in two minds over audio, not just becuase of the sound of my own rather drawling voice [heh Ed.] but becasue it's in *English* and not everyone understands that, no audio means everyone can watch without needing to 'listen'. It does mean I have to rethink how I record what I'm doing (trying to actually 'remember' shortcut keys instead of being in auto pilot is a bugger).

I've got some more planned, not sure when I'll get them done though!

kat wrote:

The only way I 'fixed' that recently was constantly moving, deleteing, replacing and compiling the map. The only other way would be to place the models where you want them and then export that section back out to OBJ to reedit the models so they're custom tweaked for the area (removing dead tris and all that)

thanks. so if the individual models are joined together in blender and non visible tris are removed then the d3 bsp process won`t screw up the collision data, yes?

Quote:

Thanks, I'm still in two minds over audio, not just becuase of the sound of my own rather drawling voice [heh Ed.] but becasue it's in *English* and not everyone understands that, no audio means everyone can watch without needing to 'listen'. It does mean I have to rethink how I record what I'm doing (trying to actually 'remember' shortcut keys instead of being in auto pilot is a bugger).

I've got some more planned, not sure when I'll get them done though!

understood and I don`t think you need audio, at least not with the tuts I`ve seen of yours so far.

I don`t like hearing my own voice recorded as it sounds too posh to me, although my real life friends and family like my voice the way it is, but I hear it differently from them, and it sounds fine in my head

did you use fraps to capture blender?

regarding my d3 sp hell map, when I`ve done enough of it, would you perhaps be interested in converting it to a d3 and or q4 mp map(s)?

I know we have similar skills with terrain so I would be happy for you to expand on, alter my sp work knowing the result would look consistent in quality, and as I don`t play mp I wouldn`t know how to design a good mp map, unlike yourself

Yes, you basically reedit the models to effectively make one tailoured to fit an area. In theory all the collision problems I've encountered are because to many models intersect each other and that *really* messes with the collison engines head!

I use a couple of apps for the tutorials CamStudio, VirtualDub, Windows Movie Maker, audacity, usually have to do them in sections because you record too much data otherwise and hit the 2GB file limit in XP. I sound a bit to posh as well and the trouble is I tend to over pronounce for the sake of clarity which ruins the 'fresh' feel I'm trying to get.. ho humm.

As for the map, heh, I wish I had that much time available to do that, got too many projects on the go, which don't leave me with much time for anything else. I'm certainly interested in seeing the end result of the SP though.

understood about the collision data, thanks

do you need to use all those apps for recording and editing the vid tuts, or is it you sometimes use some instead of others?

and np about the mp map, but the offer will stay open if you ever find time in the future

also your help will be much appreciated with any advise on any of the problems I run into during the development of the sp map, although I respect you have other projects, and other people on here to help, so I`ll try to figure out as much as I can before calling out "kat, I`m stuck again"

btw, after my numerous d3 terrain test maps I worked on in the past, I concluded it took too much time and effect to try and eliminate or cover up the ugly self shadows on terrain, so I`m not going to worry about them any more and concentrate on getting the rest of the map as good looking as and fun to play as possible.

I was wondering what you were doing about that shadow thing, a 'practical' solution but very man hours intensive to place for what is a megligable visual 'effect'. I don't think many people will notice things like that so you do have to wonder about the time you put into it versus something else (as you're doing now).

Those apps are all free and simple interfaced, I've tried others but they're over complicated for what I've been doing, so I stick to those. Got to stay legal more than anything (that's important to me if not anyone else).

lol on the quote :lol:

one of the reasons I can get away with the ugly self shadows in this map is it`s pretty dark and the rock texture I made for it is also dark, as opposed to the earlier test maps I was working on was me attempting to do a brightly sun lit map and the rock textures were a light grey.

I wonder if the megatexture engine or what ever it`s called has this similar issue, or if it samples the light off the surface like the old q3map2 could do to avoid dark creases in our trisouped brushwork?

from what I`ve seen of et qw I couldn`t see any self shadows that looked bad, but maybe we just haven`t seen them yet.

understood about the capture and editing apps and I too try to always take the legal route.

do you have any tuts of your own or links to ones which teach us how to record and edit vid tuts?

No vid editing tutes I'm afriad and I don't know of any outside of the help files that came with the apps, it's gets tricky when you use more than one app.

I've been wondering that about mega as well nothing from what I've seen casts the type of shadows we're been used to so far, it looks like on the larger terrain scale of things that they may be doing some sort of vertex shading.. all speculation of course.

understood and which are your fave apps to use for that purpose?

I`ve recently read your various posts on your site about mega and it does sound like the work flow is quite fast for creating terrain, so I`m hoping there isn`t any fiddly little fixes the designers are expected to do to get that quality of lighting they seem to be getting.

are you aware of any sp games other then wolf being developed using mega? I ask because I`d like to work with that engine in the future, but I only if there is a sp mode or game.

No, only Wolf and QW, at least 'publicly know'. And I'm in the same boat, I'm only doing MP to keep at it waiting for SP and mega. I've got to send another email to Wils to ask him some questions about building for Mega that should be interesting to know about.

I use CamStudio to capture and VirtualDub to edit, and save to AVI. WMM is good to save to .wma which are handy for smaller lower quality files, also easier to work with audio although I've yet to get into that propoerly.

understood and interesting