6th Venom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:54 pm :
Hi all,
i'm working on a different player model, he is modeled, textured, but now come the impassioning moment of rigging/skinning.

I'd like to use the player marine bones, but I am not at all has ease with the actual bones orientation from these, i mean they are not connected to each others like bones i make usually. (you know what i mean i suppose.)

so, before redoing ALL the bone skeleton myself, i was wondering if:
1) somebody already did it for personnal use, and can send it to me?
2) is it possible in max to reorient/rotate only the representation of a bone?
(and not what it skin with)

Maybe another good things would be to create a biped with the same proportions that the player marine, and same bones names/numbers?

thanks guys. :wink:



Lumpengnom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:34 pm :
A player model that can see himself in the game? I mean more than just the arms?



pendragon@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:41 pm :
If you're going to be using the marines existing anim files you'll have to keep the bones orientations unchanged or your model will get fubar'd when you apply them. The other problem I run into, in Max, is painting the vertex's properly because of the bone orientations. If you're making your own anims then it'd be much easier to make your own bone system.
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.



6th Venom@Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:32 am :
pendragon wrote:
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.

This would be cool...

For the orientations problem, that's why i asked to know if it's possible to only rotate the bone representation (what you see as a bone) and not the "coordinate" of the bone (what you see in the bone, in skin modifier).

I'd like to use vanilla player anims, to not have to redo all of these, i plan to use mirrors, and cinematics...

If i use my own, i'll disable all mirrors, player reflections in materials, and make a nodraw texture for thirdpersonview users... that would be really sad no? :wink:

That's why maybe create a Biped with the exact same names and position of bones as the player marine could be great for the D3 community, allow for everyone to use it to make custom anims or custom player models.

I'll PM hellborg too, cause i remember about custom "ninja" player models in his mods...

Thanks for any help. :wink:



obihb@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:18 am :
Alot of people have talked about this thing with the bones. My solution is very simple and does not affect exporting in any way, although a custom rig is needed for animating.

What you could do is go in your keyboard shortcut setup and look for "Bone Options". As far as I can find this little menu is not found anywhere else accept through the shortcuts. So look for that and asign a key to be able to open it.

Select all your bones, only the bones, open the bone options and check "Show Links" and "Show Links Only". You'll see now a simple representation of the hierarchy that the bones create. Much easier to use than the mangled bones.

Going back to your first question. It is possible to affect the bone and not the pivot. Not sure if it is time well spent but you can do it by going into the "Hierarchy" menu and then click on "Affect Object Only".

About the Biped idea. The best I see that working is to create the biped ontop of the existing skeleton and just contrain the original skeleton to the biped. No need to mess with hierarchy and names and all that. So you end up still being able to animate using biped but no problems with exporting.

So there are some various solutions to the problem. I guess a personal choice which one to take.

I'm pretty sure I still have a rigged Player somewhere. Basically a custom IK rig created on the imported skeleton. I can't remember how extensive I made the rig but I used it for my own cutscenes way back when.

As for new models replacing the player model, the Skin Wrap modifier does wonders. It can be converted to Skin and used for exporting or tweaked further or whatever. It's a great point to start from though.

I think this concludes my rambling. I'll look for my rigged player model and can give to you if you want. I think it was made in Max7 if I remember correctly.



6th Venom@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:45 am :
thanks for your usefull infos obihb, and about your model it could be a great help too.

don't got the time to work on it this weekend but i'll look at it at sunday's night.

Thanks! :wink:



pendragon@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:28 pm :
The only custom bones system I could find was one I made for the ZSEC.
And it's not complete. Sorry, venom.
obihb... I spend hours yesterday trying to find that damn 'show links only' option! I knew it existed but couldn't find it anywhere :x



6th Venom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:54 pm :
Hi all,
i'm working on a different player model, he is modeled, textured, but now come the impassioning moment of rigging/skinning.

I'd like to use the player marine bones, but I am not at all has ease with the actual bones orientation from these, i mean they are not connected to each others like bones i make usually. (you know what i mean i suppose.)

so, before redoing ALL the bone skeleton myself, i was wondering if:
1) somebody already did it for personnal use, and can send it to me?
2) is it possible in max to reorient/rotate only the representation of a bone?
(and not what it skin with)

Maybe another good things would be to create a biped with the same proportions that the player marine, and same bones names/numbers?

thanks guys. :wink:



Lumpengnom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:34 pm :
A player model that can see himself in the game? I mean more than just the arms?



pendragon@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:41 pm :
If you're going to be using the marines existing anim files you'll have to keep the bones orientations unchanged or your model will get fubar'd when you apply them. The other problem I run into, in Max, is painting the vertex's properly because of the bone orientations. If you're making your own anims then it'd be much easier to make your own bone system.
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.



6th Venom@Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:32 am :
pendragon wrote:
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.

This would be cool...

For the orientations problem, that's why i asked to know if it's possible to only rotate the bone representation (what you see as a bone) and not the "coordinate" of the bone (what you see in the bone, in skin modifier).

I'd like to use vanilla player anims, to not have to redo all of these, i plan to use mirrors, and cinematics...

If i use my own, i'll disable all mirrors, player reflections in materials, and make a nodraw texture for thirdpersonview users... that would be really sad no? :wink:

That's why maybe create a Biped with the exact same names and position of bones as the player marine could be great for the D3 community, allow for everyone to use it to make custom anims or custom player models.

I'll PM hellborg too, cause i remember about custom "ninja" player models in his mods...

Thanks for any help. :wink:



obihb@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:18 am :
Alot of people have talked about this thing with the bones. My solution is very simple and does not affect exporting in any way, although a custom rig is needed for animating.

What you could do is go in your keyboard shortcut setup and look for "Bone Options". As far as I can find this little menu is not found anywhere else accept through the shortcuts. So look for that and asign a key to be able to open it.

Select all your bones, only the bones, open the bone options and check "Show Links" and "Show Links Only". You'll see now a simple representation of the hierarchy that the bones create. Much easier to use than the mangled bones.

Going back to your first question. It is possible to affect the bone and not the pivot. Not sure if it is time well spent but you can do it by going into the "Hierarchy" menu and then click on "Affect Object Only".

About the Biped idea. The best I see that working is to create the biped ontop of the existing skeleton and just contrain the original skeleton to the biped. No need to mess with hierarchy and names and all that. So you end up still being able to animate using biped but no problems with exporting.

So there are some various solutions to the problem. I guess a personal choice which one to take.

I'm pretty sure I still have a rigged Player somewhere. Basically a custom IK rig created on the imported skeleton. I can't remember how extensive I made the rig but I used it for my own cutscenes way back when.

As for new models replacing the player model, the Skin Wrap modifier does wonders. It can be converted to Skin and used for exporting or tweaked further or whatever. It's a great point to start from though.

I think this concludes my rambling. I'll look for my rigged player model and can give to you if you want. I think it was made in Max7 if I remember correctly.



6th Venom@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:45 am :
thanks for your usefull infos obihb, and about your model it could be a great help too.

don't got the time to work on it this weekend but i'll look at it at sunday's night.

Thanks! :wink:



pendragon@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:28 pm :
The only custom bones system I could find was one I made for the ZSEC.
And it's not complete. Sorry, venom.
obihb... I spend hours yesterday trying to find that damn 'show links only' option! I knew it existed but couldn't find it anywhere :x



6th Venom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:54 pm :
Hi all,
i'm working on a different player model, he is modeled, textured, but now come the impassioning moment of rigging/skinning.

I'd like to use the player marine bones, but I am not at all has ease with the actual bones orientation from these, i mean they are not connected to each others like bones i make usually. (you know what i mean i suppose.)

so, before redoing ALL the bone skeleton myself, i was wondering if:
1) somebody already did it for personnal use, and can send it to me?
2) is it possible in max to reorient/rotate only the representation of a bone?
(and not what it skin with)

Maybe another good things would be to create a biped with the same proportions that the player marine, and same bones names/numbers?

thanks guys. :wink:



Lumpengnom@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:34 pm :
A player model that can see himself in the game? I mean more than just the arms?



pendragon@Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:41 pm :
If you're going to be using the marines existing anim files you'll have to keep the bones orientations unchanged or your model will get fubar'd when you apply them. The other problem I run into, in Max, is painting the vertex's properly because of the bone orientations. If you're making your own anims then it'd be much easier to make your own bone system.
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.



6th Venom@Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:32 am :
pendragon wrote:
I thought I made one for Max..I'll check.

This would be cool...

For the orientations problem, that's why i asked to know if it's possible to only rotate the bone representation (what you see as a bone) and not the "coordinate" of the bone (what you see in the bone, in skin modifier).

I'd like to use vanilla player anims, to not have to redo all of these, i plan to use mirrors, and cinematics...

If i use my own, i'll disable all mirrors, player reflections in materials, and make a nodraw texture for thirdpersonview users... that would be really sad no? :wink:

That's why maybe create a Biped with the exact same names and position of bones as the player marine could be great for the D3 community, allow for everyone to use it to make custom anims or custom player models.

I'll PM hellborg too, cause i remember about custom "ninja" player models in his mods...

Thanks for any help. :wink:



obihb@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:18 am :
Alot of people have talked about this thing with the bones. My solution is very simple and does not affect exporting in any way, although a custom rig is needed for animating.

What you could do is go in your keyboard shortcut setup and look for "Bone Options". As far as I can find this little menu is not found anywhere else accept through the shortcuts. So look for that and asign a key to be able to open it.

Select all your bones, only the bones, open the bone options and check "Show Links" and "Show Links Only". You'll see now a simple representation of the hierarchy that the bones create. Much easier to use than the mangled bones.

Going back to your first question. It is possible to affect the bone and not the pivot. Not sure if it is time well spent but you can do it by going into the "Hierarchy" menu and then click on "Affect Object Only".

About the Biped idea. The best I see that working is to create the biped ontop of the existing skeleton and just contrain the original skeleton to the biped. No need to mess with hierarchy and names and all that. So you end up still being able to animate using biped but no problems with exporting.

So there are some various solutions to the problem. I guess a personal choice which one to take.

I'm pretty sure I still have a rigged Player somewhere. Basically a custom IK rig created on the imported skeleton. I can't remember how extensive I made the rig but I used it for my own cutscenes way back when.

As for new models replacing the player model, the Skin Wrap modifier does wonders. It can be converted to Skin and used for exporting or tweaked further or whatever. It's a great point to start from though.

I think this concludes my rambling. I'll look for my rigged player model and can give to you if you want. I think it was made in Max7 if I remember correctly.



6th Venom@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:45 am :
thanks for your usefull infos obihb, and about your model it could be a great help too.

don't got the time to work on it this weekend but i'll look at it at sunday's night.

Thanks! :wink:



pendragon@Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:28 pm :
The only custom bones system I could find was one I made for the ZSEC.
And it's not complete. Sorry, venom.
obihb... I spend hours yesterday trying to find that damn 'show links only' option! I knew it existed but couldn't find it anywhere :x