[EDIT]This map is finished. Head to my Maps Final thread to post your comments.

[EDIT] Okay, it's been a while since my last (and only) update for this map. But, hey my motto is "Less updates, more mapping". All the screenshots have been updated, but most of this post's text remains the same. Now, onto the new screenshots:

I've always been a fan of dark, gritty medieval or gothic architecture. It shows...



The image above is the first thing you see in this Doom 3 map I'm making. All the textures, particles, and models are custom-made. The "gatehouse" is literally that large building that makes up the entry to this castle. Most of the time you spend in this map won't be in the gate house, but I felt I should put emphasis on it, since it will be the first place you visit, and that is where the marines have set up camp while infiltrating this castle.

This is a fountain of souls or something. I haven't decided what to call it yet. A bunch of blue ether fog pours from it (gotta make it easier on the framerate, though):






I'm particularly proud of how the textures turned out in-game. I even made variations of some brick textures that show bricks thinning out into a solid surface.


When this map is complete, I'll be using it directly in my game development portfolio. I not only welcome constructive criticism, but prefer it even after I've released it. Do you think it's fun? Is it too hard? Too easy? I will be asking all of these questions once I post a Maps Final thread.

I do have a question for you all right now, and it pertains to the amount of custom assets I'm creating to make this map. My question is: would you rather I provide DDS versions of my custom textures in the pk4 I will release online, or would you rather I do not? I ask you this because both sides have its ups and downs. If I release DDS versions along with the pak, it won't take as long for the map to load, but it will take longer to download the larger file size. If I don't include DDS files, the level load time will take longer (vice versa, in other words).

Just so you know, I will allow you all to freely use the custom textures, models, and particles in your future maps, should you find any use for them (provided you simply reference me in the credits of your documentation and/or README file). I just think it would be selfish of me not to allow you to use them after taking all that time to download them. Granted, I am trying my best to optimize the file size, doing things like replacing barely-used textures with commonly used ones, and decreasing the sizes of certain targa images.

Here are a few more groups of screenshots:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0001.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0002.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0003.jpg

I feel I should make it clear that the flashlight will not be available in this map. No, I don't have anything against switching between FL and gun, but I don't like how easy it is to become so dependent on shining a light everywhere I explore, so I am going to have it removed from the inventory in this map. I will see to it that this map will have more than enough light. If you guys think that it's too dark when you play it, then please let me know so that I can fix it.

So, any feedback on the aesthetics?

Awesome job! I'd say more but I have to go now! Can't wait to play it... Unless you haven't linked it and aren't going to... I don't know I haven't read the post yet I just glanced at screenies... Like I said I have to go .

Nice job though!

EDIT: I've come back to add more to my reply!

Awesome textures and custom models. The only problem I have with it is more of a question. Did castles really have that many torches everywhere? I don't think it's that big of a deal, but other than that it looks really great to me.

Then again, I'm not a mapper. Environments were never anything I really enjoyed too much unfortunately.

And as for the DDS question. I think it depends on the final size of the file. If you can have the entire map saved with DDSs and the file size be around or under 100-200mb, then do it. Just as long as people get 300kb or more download speed I don't think it really matters... Not to me anyway .

From the screens it looks fantastic!
A minor remark which sprang into my eye the second I saw the 2nd image: The texture on the patch mesh colums appears to be stretched too much. I'd try to find a fitting texture with a suitable resolution.

wow, this looks incredible. Are you gonna have a catacombs thing to go with this upper area? You remember the movie Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves, with kevin Costner? you know the dungeon/catacombs where that witch hands out to advise the sheriff of nottingham? I think an area that looked like that would be a fantastic addition. real dark and drippy and smelly and you know there is nothing good residing in a place like that. Or maybe a smelter or something like the one the demons use in the 2nd Lord Of the Rings under ground, something that powers the heaters to keep that castle warm. Alot of castles would have a fireplace in each room to provide heating, but who knows if any of them had central heating. might be a neat idea, and provide some interesting (underground) level architecture.

anyway, fantastic job on this. looks great so far, can't wait to see it when it nears the final stages.

Looks very nice! BNA's right though, the stretching on those support pillars stood out to me straight away. Maybe instead of the arched trims being flush with the wall, you could extrude them out slightly for a bit of extra depth.

This looks awesome!

On the DDS question I would say include them. Or perhaps make an optional PK4 file with just the DDS textures in?

I'm sure I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that the in-game compression not only adds to load time but also creates "inferior" compressed images compared to using an external converter.

Sim

fantastic work!

Very nice, I can't wait. I love those doors, good work.

Amazing, i want this sp map !!!

Beautiful!
I'll get it when the map is released.

That looks really nice. I love that style of map too. The monsters fit in nicely, but the weapons and items don't. I'm surprised no ones made a whole set of medieval type weapons yet. It would be great for maps like this.

Wow..
Your pretty amazing at what you do. Currently I'm working on the basement of the Abandoned Hospital and it's looking pretty good. http://www.scottbaker.eu/Rainfall/index.html

Are those custom models I see? If so I best start getting back into 3Ds Max. It will be nice to make custom content

I see what you mean by overusing the same color light. But sometimes I don't know were to add an additional light or sometimes I don't know which color to use. I'm practicing a lot, and it's because of you evilartist that I'm really getting into Doom Mapping.

Thank you ever so much,
Scott.

That looks fantastic evilartist. Great work, especially on the gatehouse. I'm working on a similarly themed map with custom content atm, but it will be multiplayer.

I love the custom models you have so far. wal is correct though, medieval weapons would take this map to the next level, considering everything else, including the hell creatures for D3 fit the style so well.

phantazm11

oh boy! I am so looking forward to this, looking EXCELLENT evilartist
Strider

i also have to agree with BNA about the second image. However the rest of it looks fantastic. The first shot in particular is really really good. Very nice to see more maps with interesting architecture in (reminds me of Bodiam Castle). Just a shame you're making it for a game i no longer own

It almost looks like Quake 1 and Heretic/Hexen, but no Ogres or Disciples here. Since there'll be decent light, will monsters be placed in many numbers and gameplay set to action mood (instead of survival mood as in originals)? Also will it evolve linearly or allow choices, finally?

Will it be for Resurrection of Evil?

Evilartist: Shaping up really nicely. When working on my previous projects I had problems with patches not aligning perfectly or being too stretched. To fix that, select the patch and hit Shift+S (if I remember correctly) then play with Horizontal and Vertical stretch values. Regular Surface Inspector (S) sadly cannot fix the problem, so you have to do it through Patch Surface Inspector (Shift+S).

Another thing that would drastically improve your castle is to use a slight beveled corners made out of patches 8 or 16 units. Use subdivision in Surface Inspector to limit how smooth it is (or to save polys). You can see what I'm talking about especially on pillars in screenshot 5.

Something that I lack myself sometimes is similar color scheme throughout the level. You have rooms that are simply lit with orange/yellow light (screenshot 2), having more of bluish color shining through the holes of rooftops or grates wold create a better atmosphere. Perhaps even add a slight layer of fog that could be a different color from yellow and blue. It will add more color and smooth the sharp edges on the corners. But the color is nitpicking since it's usually tweaked till the map is finished.

Keep up the good work,

-Method

Not the hijack this thread too much, but Abandoned Hospital is also looking great!
Release date Sythen???

Strider

Sorry,
It's going to take a good while. I'm running up to the second room!
I'm guessing it will be in the next few months?

RPG? I've played many games with this type of setting and they've always been fun.
Looks great! now add some good new ambient sounds and then it should be really interesting.
I like it.

Thank you for the feeback, everyone!

@BNA!: Ack! You've caught me red-handed about the patch columns. The truth is that I got lazy and simply used part of a (kind of) small texture rather than making a new one specially designed for round pillars and arches. I've always felt pretty guilty about cheapening my map like that, but now that you guys have [i]easily[i/] noticed it, I don't think I should ignore it anymore. I will make a round, brick arch/pillar texture.

@ Chuckdood: A lot of the level is underground, and I had originally designed most of it to be like a dark dungeon thing, so I see what you mean. The problem is that I tried making things look too photorealistic, and instead scrapped that because I figured something more "pseudo-real" and art-like would look better. Instead of making it look realistic, I decided to make it colorful--give it its own art theme, so to speak (like what Epic did in Gears of War).

But to answer your question, chuck, I almost put in catacombs, but I decided there were already enough things. Originally, I had designed a whole expansion pack designed around going through many major portions of a castle. I was inspired to try a dark castle theme in Doom 3 after playing Castlevania: Symphony of the Night for the first time (I never had a Playstation growing up, I downloaded it on Xbox Live Arcade).

@ bkt: About the arches being flush...ironically, they aren't--but I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has noticed they don't come out very far from the wall. I'll have to fix that.

@ CrimsonHead: I was actually surprised those doors turned out so good. I just threw together a few of my custom textures, did a little extra bumpmap work, and the d3 engine worked its magic!

@ wal: Yes, I know. The items are out of place with this theme. I simply don't have that kind of time to learn how to make weapons and stuff. I've been working on this map since last August. Hell, I'm no expert modeler, either. This is the first map I've ever made Lightwave models for, and I'm getting the hang of it now. I'm really making this map so I can put together a game development portfolio, and I don't want to get carried away on too much outside of level design--just doing some texture and model work will be enough to make me more valuable.

@ Sythen: I'm glad I can help, Sythen. My only word of advice: tone the fog down a little. Just change the shaderParm level on the fog light source to lower its thickness level, and don't settle on white. Make that fog light a color more similar to what your target color scheme is.

@ printz: I am a fan of HeXen and Quake, especially for their look. I just love medievial fantasy themes, especially if they're grim. To answer your questions: it will be linear, with a couple extra paths that lead off to stock piles of items or new weapons; it will not be for RoE, sorry.

@ Method: Yes, I try my best to stretch patch textures to match its adjacent geometry. Have you spotted any misaligned textures that I missed which you can point out? As for image #5, I did design those columns to have sharp edges, but I can always try out bevel corners and see how they look.

You and I are actually on the same page about adding fog around. I haven't created the majority of the particles yet, but there will be some fog particles (like the cloud-like ones in the very first image), but smaller, darker-colored, and more colorful. I planned on littering the ground with them since they do play a role in the scenario of this level, somewhat. Bottom line: there will be things like loose fog breaking up the repetition of empty air. I am even going to be adding bloom-like effects aimed through the windows, like rows of sprites that will form a glow that will look like it's coming from outside.

@ Bladeghost: I'm already on the ambient sounds thing, BG! I'm near completion of this map, and have only a page-long list of things left to do with it, but I am now takng a break from that and going on a scavenger hunt for free sound effects that I can use to make the environment really come alive. Does anybody know any websites that offer free, high-quality sound effects to anyone?

One place for sounds I found was this, it has some stuff, anyhow have a look and see if any of it could be useful. Have a great one!

http://www.meanrabbit.com/wavhtml/wavepage.htm

Yea, I know it would be a lot of work. I was hoping someone with the skills would read the thread and decide to make the weapons. I think it would be a hugely popular mod. Even with just ranged weapons you could have: Bow, Crossbow, Spear, Throwing axe, Hammer, Knives, Sling, Blow darts, Ninja stars, Shakra, Petrol bomb type weapon with burning oil, Soulcube and Bloodstone. That's without any melee weapons. And you could have a warrior, wizard and thief. I wish I was more experienced and knew how to model. I would definitely do this. Maybe for Doom9
Although the wizard shouldn't be too hard. Just some spell type projectiles and trigger hurts with some nice looking particles. I was already gunna give the player the archvile attacks. Could replace armour with mana

Nice... very 'hexeny'...

Hey evilartist,
I've decided that to change the color scheme of my fog or infact do anything to the fog would make the overall level look distorted. I like the fog, but as you know if your trying to make a dark area for a flashlight somtimes the fog shows out the models and it's not the effect I am looking for, So I have decided to do small particle effects near pipes etc.. Rather than resorting to overall fog.

Thanks for the help with it anyway. People seem to really be liking your castle. I love the lighting and the use of patches and custom models.

Oh and I've printed out a few flyers to put around my school and assemble a team. So far it's going great, I have alot of intrest. Rainfall might actually start off to be a good project.

Ontill Next time,
Scott.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Glad I can help.

Wow. So unlike Doom 1 and 2, you can actually gather mappers from the real world? That Doom 3 is newer raises the chances unexpectedly to find interested people in mapping for it?

EDIT: Is it really necessary to diferentiate player classes? Why not keep just one, the "Marine", who has just been trapped in a medieval world which got invaded by the same hellspawn who invaded Mars?

Of course it's not necessary, that's not the point. Besides it's not a story issue anyway, it's artistic. I'm not putting the map down in any way, I just think a decent set of medieval weapons/items would be a great option to have for maps like this. Player classes would be even better.

printz,
just to let you know. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this, it's a new concept to me and I've always wanted to develop a Modification amongst friends. Usually it's just me. So there's no need to be sarcastic about it, I'm just telling evilartist how I'm getting on in the new (to me) world of mapping.

Thanks..
Scott.

I wasn't sarcastic I was more surprised.

Alright Printz..
Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Scott.

Wow! That looks really nice. I love the towers. Great job on the lighting too.

That looks very sweet. I don't know if you're familiar with the Darkmod or not but a setting like that would be very welcome. Might fit in better with a thief-like gameplay than Doom gameplay too.

Really looking forward to this! I love dark, gothic levels such as the one you're creating. Keep it up.

*bump* I updated my screenshots in the very first post. Have a look and see if it's getting any better (or any worse?). I think the major difference will be more color variation in the lighting.

I'm just letting you know that I'm still working away on the gatehouse.

Very very nice

Looks very nice. Be sure to drink your ovaltine

I'm very excited for this. Will there be any new monsters and is there a playable demo by chance?

Unfortunately, no new monsters. As fun as it would be to have all sorts of Castlevania-like monsters in this level (the game series I originally got the inspiration from), I'm just a mapper/texture artist/newb modeler. Hell, be glad I didn't do this in Quake 4. Originally, I was designing this level to be in Q4, but I thought that the D3 monsters would be better suited for this theme. So, sorry. This isn't a mod, or a TC. If you're looking for a medieval TC, try HeXen: Edge of Chaos, or the Dark Mod. Also, no demo. Again, sorry. It's kind of hard to do a demo when there's already only one level.

Just an update on the mapping process: I'm just tweaking the gameplay. The look, decoration, and detail is all complete (aside from minor nitpicking). Actually, two out of the eight months that I've sepnt working on this map has been time lost due to total compulsive nitpicking from myself. I am my own brutal critic. I had the flow and monster/item distribution done for a long time, but I'm always trying to make it more fun, if possible, without sacrificing too much of the framerate (I try to keep heavy battles above 30 fps). I've redesigned/rebuilt a few major areas of this map more than once.

Up to now, I have a blast playing it, but that's just me (of course). My aim is for it be intense and action-packed, and is about as difficult as the later levels in vanilla D3. I hope you will not be fooled by the first half of the map, which may feel more mellow. There's a reason why it will suddenly become harder.

One major issue still remains with this map: the ambience. I tried, but I just can't find any free sfx to use for environmental sounds (please don't mention any sites that I have to pay for. I am currently on a tight budget). And music...I think if I find just the right short music pieces from D3's assets, I can piece together some comprehensible mood-setters for certain areas, but so far it has been difficult.

Well, that's all for now. I hope that by the time I post again, I will be saying "the map is done" (unless I need to answer someone's question).

[EDIT]This map is finished. Head to my Maps Final thread to post your comments.

[EDIT] Okay, it's been a while since my last (and only) update for this map. But, hey my motto is "Less updates, more mapping". All the screenshots have been updated, but most of this post's text remains the same. Now, onto the new screenshots:

I've always been a fan of dark, gritty medieval or gothic architecture. It shows...



The image above is the first thing you see in this Doom 3 map I'm making. All the textures, particles, and models are custom-made. The "gatehouse" is literally that large building that makes up the entry to this castle. Most of the time you spend in this map won't be in the gate house, but I felt I should put emphasis on it, since it will be the first place you visit, and that is where the marines have set up camp while infiltrating this castle.

This is a fountain of souls or something. I haven't decided what to call it yet. A bunch of blue ether fog pours from it (gotta make it easier on the framerate, though):






I'm particularly proud of how the textures turned out in-game. I even made variations of some brick textures that show bricks thinning out into a solid surface.


When this map is complete, I'll be using it directly in my game development portfolio. I not only welcome constructive criticism, but prefer it even after I've released it. Do you think it's fun? Is it too hard? Too easy? I will be asking all of these questions once I post a Maps Final thread.

I do have a question for you all right now, and it pertains to the amount of custom assets I'm creating to make this map. My question is: would you rather I provide DDS versions of my custom textures in the pk4 I will release online, or would you rather I do not? I ask you this because both sides have its ups and downs. If I release DDS versions along with the pak, it won't take as long for the map to load, but it will take longer to download the larger file size. If I don't include DDS files, the level load time will take longer (vice versa, in other words).

Just so you know, I will allow you all to freely use the custom textures, models, and particles in your future maps, should you find any use for them (provided you simply reference me in the credits of your documentation and/or README file). I just think it would be selfish of me not to allow you to use them after taking all that time to download them. Granted, I am trying my best to optimize the file size, doing things like replacing barely-used textures with commonly used ones, and decreasing the sizes of certain targa images.

Here are a few more groups of screenshots:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0001.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0002.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/evilartist64208/screens0003.jpg

I feel I should make it clear that the flashlight will not be available in this map. No, I don't have anything against switching between FL and gun, but I don't like how easy it is to become so dependent on shining a light everywhere I explore, so I am going to have it removed from the inventory in this map. I will see to it that this map will have more than enough light. If you guys think that it's too dark when you play it, then please let me know so that I can fix it.

So, any feedback on the aesthetics?

Awesome job! I'd say more but I have to go now! Can't wait to play it... Unless you haven't linked it and aren't going to... I don't know I haven't read the post yet I just glanced at screenies... Like I said I have to go .

Nice job though!

EDIT: I've come back to add more to my reply!

Awesome textures and custom models. The only problem I have with it is more of a question. Did castles really have that many torches everywhere? I don't think it's that big of a deal, but other than that it looks really great to me.

Then again, I'm not a mapper. Environments were never anything I really enjoyed too much unfortunately.

And as for the DDS question. I think it depends on the final size of the file. If you can have the entire map saved with DDSs and the file size be around or under 100-200mb, then do it. Just as long as people get 300kb or more download speed I don't think it really matters... Not to me anyway .

From the screens it looks fantastic!
A minor remark which sprang into my eye the second I saw the 2nd image: The texture on the patch mesh colums appears to be stretched too much. I'd try to find a fitting texture with a suitable resolution.

wow, this looks incredible. Are you gonna have a catacombs thing to go with this upper area? You remember the movie Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves, with kevin Costner? you know the dungeon/catacombs where that witch hands out to advise the sheriff of nottingham? I think an area that looked like that would be a fantastic addition. real dark and drippy and smelly and you know there is nothing good residing in a place like that. Or maybe a smelter or something like the one the demons use in the 2nd Lord Of the Rings under ground, something that powers the heaters to keep that castle warm. Alot of castles would have a fireplace in each room to provide heating, but who knows if any of them had central heating. might be a neat idea, and provide some interesting (underground) level architecture.

anyway, fantastic job on this. looks great so far, can't wait to see it when it nears the final stages.

Looks very nice! BNA's right though, the stretching on those support pillars stood out to me straight away. Maybe instead of the arched trims being flush with the wall, you could extrude them out slightly for a bit of extra depth.

This looks awesome!

On the DDS question I would say include them. Or perhaps make an optional PK4 file with just the DDS textures in?

I'm sure I read somewhere (sorry, can't remember where) that the in-game compression not only adds to load time but also creates "inferior" compressed images compared to using an external converter.

Sim

fantastic work!

Very nice, I can't wait. I love those doors, good work.

Amazing, i want this sp map !!!

Beautiful!
I'll get it when the map is released.

That looks really nice. I love that style of map too. The monsters fit in nicely, but the weapons and items don't. I'm surprised no ones made a whole set of medieval type weapons yet. It would be great for maps like this.

Wow..
Your pretty amazing at what you do. Currently I'm working on the basement of the Abandoned Hospital and it's looking pretty good. http://www.scottbaker.eu/Rainfall/index.html

Are those custom models I see? If so I best start getting back into 3Ds Max. It will be nice to make custom content

I see what you mean by overusing the same color light. But sometimes I don't know were to add an additional light or sometimes I don't know which color to use. I'm practicing a lot, and it's because of you evilartist that I'm really getting into Doom Mapping.

Thank you ever so much,
Scott.

That looks fantastic evilartist. Great work, especially on the gatehouse. I'm working on a similarly themed map with custom content atm, but it will be multiplayer.

I love the custom models you have so far. wal is correct though, medieval weapons would take this map to the next level, considering everything else, including the hell creatures for D3 fit the style so well.

phantazm11

oh boy! I am so looking forward to this, looking EXCELLENT evilartist
Strider

i also have to agree with BNA about the second image. However the rest of it looks fantastic. The first shot in particular is really really good. Very nice to see more maps with interesting architecture in (reminds me of Bodiam Castle). Just a shame you're making it for a game i no longer own

It almost looks like Quake 1 and Heretic/Hexen, but no Ogres or Disciples here. Since there'll be decent light, will monsters be placed in many numbers and gameplay set to action mood (instead of survival mood as in originals)? Also will it evolve linearly or allow choices, finally?

Will it be for Resurrection of Evil?

Evilartist: Shaping up really nicely. When working on my previous projects I had problems with patches not aligning perfectly or being too stretched. To fix that, select the patch and hit Shift+S (if I remember correctly) then play with Horizontal and Vertical stretch values. Regular Surface Inspector (S) sadly cannot fix the problem, so you have to do it through Patch Surface Inspector (Shift+S).

Another thing that would drastically improve your castle is to use a slight beveled corners made out of patches 8 or 16 units. Use subdivision in Surface Inspector to limit how smooth it is (or to save polys). You can see what I'm talking about especially on pillars in screenshot 5.

Something that I lack myself sometimes is similar color scheme throughout the level. You have rooms that are simply lit with orange/yellow light (screenshot 2), having more of bluish color shining through the holes of rooftops or grates wold create a better atmosphere. Perhaps even add a slight layer of fog that could be a different color from yellow and blue. It will add more color and smooth the sharp edges on the corners. But the color is nitpicking since it's usually tweaked till the map is finished.

Keep up the good work,

-Method

Not the hijack this thread too much, but Abandoned Hospital is also looking great!
Release date Sythen???

Strider

Sorry,
It's going to take a good while. I'm running up to the second room!
I'm guessing it will be in the next few months?

RPG? I've played many games with this type of setting and they've always been fun.
Looks great! now add some good new ambient sounds and then it should be really interesting.
I like it.

Thank you for the feeback, everyone!

@BNA!: Ack! You've caught me red-handed about the patch columns. The truth is that I got lazy and simply used part of a (kind of) small texture rather than making a new one specially designed for round pillars and arches. I've always felt pretty guilty about cheapening my map like that, but now that you guys have [i]easily[i/] noticed it, I don't think I should ignore it anymore. I will make a round, brick arch/pillar texture.

@ Chuckdood: A lot of the level is underground, and I had originally designed most of it to be like a dark dungeon thing, so I see what you mean. The problem is that I tried making things look too photorealistic, and instead scrapped that because I figured something more "pseudo-real" and art-like would look better. Instead of making it look realistic, I decided to make it colorful--give it its own art theme, so to speak (like what Epic did in Gears of War).

But to answer your question, chuck, I almost put in catacombs, but I decided there were already enough things. Originally, I had designed a whole expansion pack designed around going through many major portions of a castle. I was inspired to try a dark castle theme in Doom 3 after playing Castlevania: Symphony of the Night for the first time (I never had a Playstation growing up, I downloaded it on Xbox Live Arcade).

@ bkt: About the arches being flush...ironically, they aren't--but I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has noticed they don't come out very far from the wall. I'll have to fix that.

@ CrimsonHead: I was actually surprised those doors turned out so good. I just threw together a few of my custom textures, did a little extra bumpmap work, and the d3 engine worked its magic!

@ wal: Yes, I know. The items are out of place with this theme. I simply don't have that kind of time to learn how to make weapons and stuff. I've been working on this map since last August. Hell, I'm no expert modeler, either. This is the first map I've ever made Lightwave models for, and I'm getting the hang of it now. I'm really making this map so I can put together a game development portfolio, and I don't want to get carried away on too much outside of level design--just doing some texture and model work will be enough to make me more valuable.

@ Sythen: I'm glad I can help, Sythen. My only word of advice: tone the fog down a little. Just change the shaderParm level on the fog light source to lower its thickness level, and don't settle on white. Make that fog light a color more similar to what your target color scheme is.

@ printz: I am a fan of HeXen and Quake, especially for their look. I just love medievial fantasy themes, especially if they're grim. To answer your questions: it will be linear, with a couple extra paths that lead off to stock piles of items or new weapons; it will not be for RoE, sorry.

@ Method: Yes, I try my best to stretch patch textures to match its adjacent geometry. Have you spotted any misaligned textures that I missed which you can point out? As for image #5, I did design those columns to have sharp edges, but I can always try out bevel corners and see how they look.

You and I are actually on the same page about adding fog around. I haven't created the majority of the particles yet, but there will be some fog particles (like the cloud-like ones in the very first image), but smaller, darker-colored, and more colorful. I planned on littering the ground with them since they do play a role in the scenario of this level, somewhat. Bottom line: there will be things like loose fog breaking up the repetition of empty air. I am even going to be adding bloom-like effects aimed through the windows, like rows of sprites that will form a glow that will look like it's coming from outside.

@ Bladeghost: I'm already on the ambient sounds thing, BG! I'm near completion of this map, and have only a page-long list of things left to do with it, but I am now takng a break from that and going on a scavenger hunt for free sound effects that I can use to make the environment really come alive. Does anybody know any websites that offer free, high-quality sound effects to anyone?

One place for sounds I found was this, it has some stuff, anyhow have a look and see if any of it could be useful. Have a great one!

http://www.meanrabbit.com/wavhtml/wavepage.htm

Yea, I know it would be a lot of work. I was hoping someone with the skills would read the thread and decide to make the weapons. I think it would be a hugely popular mod. Even with just ranged weapons you could have: Bow, Crossbow, Spear, Throwing axe, Hammer, Knives, Sling, Blow darts, Ninja stars, Shakra, Petrol bomb type weapon with burning oil, Soulcube and Bloodstone. That's without any melee weapons. And you could have a warrior, wizard and thief. I wish I was more experienced and knew how to model. I would definitely do this. Maybe for Doom9
Although the wizard shouldn't be too hard. Just some spell type projectiles and trigger hurts with some nice looking particles. I was already gunna give the player the archvile attacks. Could replace armour with mana

Nice... very 'hexeny'...

Hey evilartist,
I've decided that to change the color scheme of my fog or infact do anything to the fog would make the overall level look distorted. I like the fog, but as you know if your trying to make a dark area for a flashlight somtimes the fog shows out the models and it's not the effect I am looking for, So I have decided to do small particle effects near pipes etc.. Rather than resorting to overall fog.

Thanks for the help with it anyway. People seem to really be liking your castle. I love the lighting and the use of patches and custom models.

Oh and I've printed out a few flyers to put around my school and assemble a team. So far it's going great, I have alot of intrest. Rainfall might actually start off to be a good project.

Ontill Next time,
Scott.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Glad I can help.

Wow. So unlike Doom 1 and 2, you can actually gather mappers from the real world? That Doom 3 is newer raises the chances unexpectedly to find interested people in mapping for it?

EDIT: Is it really necessary to diferentiate player classes? Why not keep just one, the "Marine", who has just been trapped in a medieval world which got invaded by the same hellspawn who invaded Mars?

Of course it's not necessary, that's not the point. Besides it's not a story issue anyway, it's artistic. I'm not putting the map down in any way, I just think a decent set of medieval weapons/items would be a great option to have for maps like this. Player classes would be even better.

printz,
just to let you know. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this, it's a new concept to me and I've always wanted to develop a Modification amongst friends. Usually it's just me. So there's no need to be sarcastic about it, I'm just telling evilartist how I'm getting on in the new (to me) world of mapping.

Thanks..
Scott.

I wasn't sarcastic I was more surprised.

Alright Printz..
Sorry for misunderstanding you.

Scott.

Wow! That looks really nice. I love the towers. Great job on the lighting too.

That looks very sweet. I don't know if you're familiar with the Darkmod or not but a setting like that would be very welcome. Might fit in better with a thief-like gameplay than Doom gameplay too.

Really looking forward to this! I love dark, gothic levels such as the one you're creating. Keep it up.

*bump* I updated my screenshots in the very first post. Have a look and see if it's getting any better (or any worse?). I think the major difference will be more color variation in the lighting.

I'm just letting you know that I'm still working away on the gatehouse.

Very very nice

Looks very nice. Be sure to drink your ovaltine

I'm very excited for this. Will there be any new monsters and is there a playable demo by chance?

Unfortunately, no new monsters. As fun as it would be to have all sorts of Castlevania-like monsters in this level (the game series I originally got the inspiration from), I'm just a mapper/texture artist/newb modeler. Hell, be glad I didn't do this in Quake 4. Originally, I was designing this level to be in Q4, but I thought that the D3 monsters would be better suited for this theme. So, sorry. This isn't a mod, or a TC. If you're looking for a medieval TC, try HeXen: Edge of Chaos, or the Dark Mod. Also, no demo. Again, sorry. It's kind of hard to do a demo when there's already only one level.

Just an update on the mapping process: I'm just tweaking the gameplay. The look, decoration, and detail is all complete (aside from minor nitpicking). Actually, two out of the eight months that I've sepnt working on this map has been time lost due to total compulsive nitpicking from myself. I am my own brutal critic. I had the flow and monster/item distribution done for a long time, but I'm always trying to make it more fun, if possible, without sacrificing too much of the framerate (I try to keep heavy battles above 30 fps). I've redesigned/rebuilt a few major areas of this map more than once.

Up to now, I have a blast playing it, but that's just me (of course). My aim is for it be intense and action-packed, and is about as difficult as the later levels in vanilla D3. I hope you will not be fooled by the first half of the map, which may feel more mellow. There's a reason why it will suddenly become harder.

One major issue still remains with this map: the ambience. I tried, but I just can't find any free sfx to use for environmental sounds (please don't mention any sites that I have to pay for. I am currently on a tight budget). And music...I think if I find just the right short music pieces from D3's assets, I can piece together some comprehensible mood-setters for certain areas, but so far it has been difficult.

Well, that's all for now. I hope that by the time I post again, I will be saying "the map is done" (unless I need to answer someone's question).

Looks very impressive

Thanks for the feedback. New monsters and a demo isn't necessary, the thought just came to mind and I'd thought I'd ask. Everything looks impressive, and I myself, am my own worst critic when it comes to making things just right. The level I'm currently working on has had the main start area redone a few times, just to get everything right, so I know how you feel.

As far as ambient music and sfx go, I have a site you can try out if you haven't already, completely free of charge. PM for more info, along with the sites you have already visited, if any.

And so, I am true to my word: the map is officially finished now. It has been thoroughly play-tested and nitpicked everywhere (aw, shit--that just reminded me about a couple textures I wanted to make look better ), and now all I have to do is organize and separate my used assets from my unused assets. That'll take a little while, unless id software had some kind of way they could generate a list of all materials, sound shaders, and static models from a map.

Give me until this weekend, and I'll have the map ready to release, and a Maps Final thread started.

I can't wait for the weekend!!

Sorry to disappoint you, but I still don't have the map up yet. I had submitted it to both d3files and fileplanet a few days ago, but they haven't told me if they approved it yet. I'm not sure how long this is supposed to take, and if I'm supposed to wait for an email confirmation. I haven't uploaded a map in a long time, so I'm trying to remember all of this. I also couldn't find any file hosts where my map could be downloaded instantly. Again, my memory is a little hazy.

Filefront have it up m8.

http://doom3.filefront.com/file/The_Gatehouse;88822

Really nice map here evilartist, first class lighting imo, great texture's.

I had it up on Planet DOOM yesterday. File page is here: Gatehouse

Thanks for linking to that. I had forgotten how to get there, so I wasn't able to check and see if it was up yet.

Tell me one thing, though Red: I noticed that the FileFront guys have decided to rewrite some of my prologue at the top of the post. Do they usually do that, because I don't like that.

Still, thanks for letting me know that they're up. I'll start a Maps Final thread now.

Well I just downloaded and played it, good effort, I somewhat enjoyed running through the dungeons. I didn't get to finish it due to not knowing where to open the gate house, but I'll cover that in my feedback.

First, I'll cover the visual stuff.

I liked the over all theme and atmosphere of the gatehouse you can see a bit off effort gone in there.

I wasn't too fond of the low resolution of the castle or what ever it was in the skybox, it really stood out like a sore thumb against the crispness of the in game content. I would've used a very low poly mesh with some slightly higher resolution textures on there.

The black trees right at the start felt a little odd and weird, like they were missing a diffuse or something, if they are, then that is just a bug. Otherwise you should make them a dark green or something so they blend in with the environment.

I noticed a lot of stretching on the terrain models used throughout the map, not major stretching but enough to notice. If you do a planar map on a mesh, you should do a quick relax on the uv's afterwards to keep the pixel consistency.

There were some minor places where zfighting was appearing, usually inside the door way areas, could be decals or light entities on the same plane as the brush face. Also I found some decals hovering over some windows and holes in the ground with grates over them.

The sliding wooden doors would be better to slide up than across, feels a bit more natural for an old dungeon. Or even better have them swing open, but due to tight corridors I wouldn't really recommend that.

The use of the tech base lights just stuck on the walls in the spiral stair cases felt very after thought-ish. It would've been a bit better and more consistent to use the moon light coming through a window, then use some light entities inside to fake light bounce, just enough to help guide the player up the stairs.

Game play stuff.

The first monster encounter felt a bit useless, after the cut scene had ended I kept walking towards the gate and stood behind the small pillars there and I noticed the demons couldn't get in to that little section there and kept running up and down the corridor trying to find a path to me, which made the AI seem a little stupid You may want to check the AAS to see if that area is reachable by smaller monsters or remove the middle pillar so they can get access to where you are, in that area.

I noticed quite a few things weren't clipped off for smooth player movement, I kept getting caught on those wall torches when the corridors were a little tighter. Always make sure you keep stuff clipped off, nothing worse than getting caught on something, especially during a monster fight.

When you come across the bridge and you see the gate there, you should use a unique land mark like some fire for example, to really show that this area is the area the player used to be at. Sure you can see the actual gate, but because everything is made from stone blocks, it could just feel like another area you are walking past.

After you collect something from a dead body, not sure what it was, you go through a doorway and there is an imp that lunges at you from the right.... I found that stuff super annoying in Doom 3. I wouldn't use it in this instance, I would just have him teleport in. It's not really your fault that they suck, it's just that when you get hit in Doom 3 your camera has like a retarded spastic overload and it's hard to aim right, I just blame id for not knowing how to differentiate good frustration and bad frustration when it comes to game design.

The section you had there where the spiders came out of the small holes and get you from behind, and imps at the front felt really really annoying (almost made me quit the game). Those spiders I found really annoying and don't offer anything satisfying to the game. I would try and keep the combat in front of the player, but this could be difficult due to how really tight the corridors are; I think they are too tight and break some of Doom 3s game design. After I managed to survive the punishment of the spiders and the imps.... I notice the spiders didn't stop coming, so I stood there for a while and kept shooting them, and kept shooting them, I think the sequence is too long and you could cut it down by 80%.

The use of monsters through out the level felt as though it wasn't thought out too well and seemed to go against their design in terms of the space/area they were in. For example I was coming back to the gate, walking up a spiral stair case and had a cacodemon spawn right in front of me (that's cool, they aren't that deadly and gives me something to shoot), but in this instance it felt worthless, because the corridor is so tight, he can't strafe and get distance from me and fire projectiles, instead he was just trying to get away from me and because he had no space to maneuver, he died easily, and so did the following one. The hellknight used at the end of the stair case wasn't really good either, he wasn't able to move because he needs to have a bit of space to move and walk around, but instead he just stood there and twitched in a strange way... because he couldn't chase me down the stairs, I was able to stand back down the stairs and throw grenades up there and kill him without any effort or stress.

The finding the key thing was OK to do, but it just wasn't executed 100% in the right way. When I came to the gate and it said find the lever, I thought sure "I'll pray arong" then I didn't know where the lever was, then I had to find a key... but I didn't know where to use the key, because I couldn't find the lever. The thing to do with item finding mechanics is to introduce the player to the object he must interact with when he's found the appropriate item, that way he knows exactly what he must do.

In general it felt the level scale was too tight for Doom 3, the corridors could be widened by 32 units at least to give the player space to move and monsters space to move around so they aren't hindered. Quite a few times there I was getting caught between monsters and couldn't move at all, which can be annoying.

Keep it up though, I'll be happy to play another revision with some of the issues fixed or not =)

Thank you, Zombie13. I appreciate your feedback, and I certainly won't deny your points on some of the faults. Some things were pretty much afterthoughts. I can always revise it, like you said, because I don't think I should ignore these problems. I'm not sure where you're seeing a lot of z-fighting (I've only seen it, like, once), but I think I know how I can fix the gate mechanism confusion.

Please, though, go easy on my crappy skybox. I'm not very good at making them, especially with the buildings. I tried.

For everyone else, go to my Maps Final thread to post all future opinions and feedback.