http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=53626

Interesting news we have here.

my comment from the comments section on shacknews: "At least I can be assured that copy protection bullshit/cd in-drive will almost immediately be patched out and that you can easily disable intro cinematics for all id games."

short trailer - http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53630

higher res - http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

Looks like Activision are paying the price for (allegedly) dropping the ball on Quake Wars.

I'd say that means we'll have crappy copy protection now, definitely.

That is probably a matter that id will have a approval rights over.

Edit:
A teaser is up at Shacknews.

Kristian Joensen wrote:

That is probably a matter that id will have a approval rights over.

Edit:
A teaser is up at Shacknews.

Wow. That trailer was impressive. Far more impressive than the old Rage trailer for sure. If the actual game looks like that, then I am sold.

EDIT: Doom 4 should look amazing since it's using this engine.

Wow, cool trailer, I was'nt expecting that until Quakecon. I'm so anxious, I just realized it has'nt been since the original Quake since we've had a competely all new, non-sequel, id software game, this is bringing me back to the old days.

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

seems like a good iDEA to me.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... ostcount=1
:shock:

CG quality graphics is near us.

Carmack you are my hero.

Yeah okay. Now the graphics are really starting to impress me. That looks incredible! And it's starting to look like a game, too.

it better not be made for children like quake wars

pbmax wrote:

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

Water,where??

Quake Wars? Children? What?

aaa111 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

Water,where??

Right in the beginning. There is a boat there, too

nvm,saw it.

I can't believe the graphics really.Its really very impressive.

It's just awesome seeing id doing what they do best and throwing bar raising graphics out there ahead of it's time. It seems like every time they release a new tech it rips the industry out of their graphics comfort zone and forces everyone to improve. We'll probably see a rush to catch up with games in the near future. That leads to lovely gems like Riddick popping out AND you get an id game!

Quote:

seems like a good idEAto me.

Nice one

The game looks good - proof of concept what one can achieve by staying away from too much specular maps, or as people say in computer graphics: If you can't make it good, then make it shiny.

The shadows look much more elegant now too. However I always think "Motorstorm, Mad Max, Star Wars (I), Farscape & Firefly" when I think about Rage.

I think i saw SS on the flag in that water area.

You know, this engine looks like it might support a visual style closer to the original Doom. Rage looks cartoonish in the best possible way. Doom4 should follow suit.

Quote:

id Software today revealed that Electronic Arts will publish its upcoming titles

I'm not sure this is compatible with my principals.

pbmax wrote:

TelMarine wrote:

id would never lock a game's FPS at 30, that is extremely low.

yes they would and have. doom3 on the xbox is locked at 30fps.

we are talking about consoles now. it seems that some have a hard time remembering that the xbox360 is id's main development platform now. so Rage on the consoles will be locked at 60fps and Doom4 will be locked at 30.

its going to be locked so that gamers have a steady solid frame rate. you don't want a frame rate that fluctuates up and down because its noticable and its a distraction.

but i'm sure we'll have an option to unlock it on the PC.

well if you are talking consoles, then yes, it might be locked to 30, but on PC, it wont be. It will be unlocked from the start. I mean doom3 not being able to be uncapped from 60 fps (62.5) had a lot of people complaining and it took me a while to understand. With Quake4, they added in a patch a command to uncap it up to 125, then I could see why people wanted it and id has definitely learned from that.

"history repeats itself" great song on the Natural Born Killers soundtrack.

anyway: bioshock comes to mind.

"History repeats itself" made me think of a classic punk album from way back when. The song I am thinking of is by "Big Boys". Wow, I could still sing everyone of them there songs.

SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN LP
Label: BYO Records
Cat. #: BYO 004
Released: 1984

1. NILS "Scratches & Needles"
2. RIGOR MORTIS "Silent Scream"
3. BIG BOYS "History"
4. UNWANTED "Tanks Keep Rolling"
5. TOURISTS "Memories"
6. KRAUT "Pyramids"
7. YOUTH BRIGADE "Care"
8. YOUTH YOUTH YOUTH "Domination"
9. SNFU "Womanizer"
10. PERSONALITY CRISIS "Piss On You"
11. CHANNEL 3 "Indian Summer"
12. YOUNG LIONS "In a Field"
13. ZEROPTION "Realpolitik"
14. DOA "Tits On the Beach"
15. 7 SECONDS "Out of Touch"
16. STRETCH MARKS "Foreign Policies"

Kristus wrote:

Well, in the vid where they're demonstrating the tech, it only takes a moment for them to compile the texture. And it's still easily reversible. They also stress that it's updated in real time for all the platforms simultaneously. So I think it's safe to say it's not at all the same tech as used in ETQW.

As I mentioned, it is fast during the stamping phase (and tile now that I think about it). But in those videos we're never shown how they create the base layer for the MT, which is what sucks up so much time in ETQW. Stamping down in ETQW is also quite fast.

I see MixoM is still in da mix!

Brain Trepaning wrote:

"History repeats itself" made me think of a classic punk album from way back when. The song I am thinking of is by "Big Boys". Wow, I could still sing everyone of them there songs.

SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN LP
Label: BYO Records
Cat. #: BYO 004
Released: 1984

1. NILS "Scratches & Needles"
2. RIGOR MORTIS "Silent Scream"
3. BIG BOYS "History"
4. UNWANTED "Tanks Keep Rolling"
5. TOURISTS "Memories"
6. KRAUT "Pyramids"
7. YOUTH BRIGADE "Care"
8. YOUTH YOUTH YOUTH "Domination"
9. SNFU "Womanizer"
10. PERSONALITY CRISIS "Piss On You"
11. CHANNEL 3 "Indian Summer"
12. YOUNG LIONS "In a Field"
13. ZEROPTION "Realpolitik"
14. DOA "Tits On the Beach"
15. 7 SECONDS "Out of Touch"
16. STRETCH MARKS "Foreign Policies"

wau, i really like all that old stuff, like chabrol and godard in cinematics; but hey let's talk about music: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =166993018 15 years later and i feel still like unborn

http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=53626

Interesting news we have here.

my comment from the comments section on shacknews: "At least I can be assured that copy protection bullshit/cd in-drive will almost immediately be patched out and that you can easily disable intro cinematics for all id games."

short trailer - http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53630

higher res - http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

Looks like Activision are paying the price for (allegedly) dropping the ball on Quake Wars.

I'd say that means we'll have crappy copy protection now, definitely.

That is probably a matter that id will have a approval rights over.

Edit:
A teaser is up at Shacknews.

Kristian Joensen wrote:

That is probably a matter that id will have a approval rights over.

Edit:
A teaser is up at Shacknews.

Wow. That trailer was impressive. Far more impressive than the old Rage trailer for sure. If the actual game looks like that, then I am sold.

EDIT: Doom 4 should look amazing since it's using this engine.

Wow, cool trailer, I was'nt expecting that until Quakecon. I'm so anxious, I just realized it has'nt been since the original Quake since we've had a competely all new, non-sequel, id software game, this is bringing me back to the old days.

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

seems like a good iDEA to me.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... ostcount=1
:shock:

CG quality graphics is near us.

Carmack you are my hero.

Yeah okay. Now the graphics are really starting to impress me. That looks incredible! And it's starting to look like a game, too.

it better not be made for children like quake wars

pbmax wrote:

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

Water,where??

Quake Wars? Children? What?

aaa111 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

that trailer put a HUGE smile on my face.

wow!

and it was only shaky cam footage...

ah, here's a much better one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36283.html

ooh! there's water too

Water,where??

Right in the beginning. There is a boat there, too

nvm,saw it.

I can't believe the graphics really.Its really very impressive.

It's just awesome seeing id doing what they do best and throwing bar raising graphics out there ahead of it's time. It seems like every time they release a new tech it rips the industry out of their graphics comfort zone and forces everyone to improve. We'll probably see a rush to catch up with games in the near future. That leads to lovely gems like Riddick popping out AND you get an id game!

Quote:

seems like a good idEAto me.

Nice one

The game looks good - proof of concept what one can achieve by staying away from too much specular maps, or as people say in computer graphics: If you can't make it good, then make it shiny.

The shadows look much more elegant now too. However I always think "Motorstorm, Mad Max, Star Wars (I), Farscape & Firefly" when I think about Rage.

I think i saw SS on the flag in that water area.

You know, this engine looks like it might support a visual style closer to the original Doom. Rage looks cartoonish in the best possible way. Doom4 should follow suit.

Quote:

id Software today revealed that Electronic Arts will publish its upcoming titles

I'm not sure this is compatible with my principals.

The whole EA thing could be Rages' only archilles heel, I hope we don't end up with some kind of rootkit copy protection crap or need the CD in the drive 24/7 or lose modability features.

If modding is good for this engine then I'm sure my next project will be on it.

CrimsonHead wrote:

The whole EA thing could be Rages' only archilles heel, I hope we don't end up with some kind of rootkit copy protection crap or need the CD in the drive 24/7 or lose modability features.

You can always wait until the source is released under the gpl and then remove it, if they do include crap like that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

The whole EA thing could be Rages' only archilles heel, I hope we don't end up with some kind of rootkit copy protection crap or need the CD in the drive 24/7 or lose modability features.

What makes you think that id will have any less control over what copy protection will be used than Valve has for their games, also published by EAP ?

stabinbac wrote:

That leads to lovely gems like Riddick popping out AND you get an id game!

so true.

This trailer makes me watch it again and again and again...smiling all the way through.
I was worried that id would be sacrificing high end for more sales but this trailer swept my fears away.
60fps! Megatexture! Colors! Very good subtle motion capture! Ridiculous Hats...this game will have everything i'll ever need!

the animation of the dude jumping over the obstacle and the guy sliding up right behind him are so spot on its amazing.

plus the older dude with the beer belly from the old trailer is perfectly animated. they even have his studder steps as he comes to a stop.

i hope this animation detail is in the game!

by the way, who's doing the animation? they don't have a lead animator since root left...

hmm, just me who thought MEH while watching it? it's so doomish (speed) that i nearly felt asleep.

and can we have a drivercamera for the carscenes, please?

kat wrote:

Looks like Activision are paying the price for (allegedly) dropping the ball on Quake Wars.

You can drop "allegedly" from that statement. Also, both Q4 and to a lesser extent D3 suffered from this. When you see Acti doing CoD4 commercials and whatnot you kinda wonder if they had anyone looking after QW before the console versions hit.

Back to Rage. This trailer sucks as a trailer but the contents look great. The environments look alot more varied than what we saw last year and we saw more people on screen. I agree with those that said the animations of the two guys with gogles and hoods looked amazingly real. I'm still bummed about the baked lighting especially since that's not something you can turn off if you have a high-end PC.

Overall, if last year I was more interested in the game than in the graphics, this trailer gives me hope that the graphics will at least hold up during play (and look amazing in static shots and whenever dynamic light/shadows don't come into the picture).

Also, queue the absolutely predictable id bashing at the EA announcement. id (or better yet EA since it's their job) should start a fightthesmear.com site with the following:

n00b says: OMGOMG this is going to have DRM up the arse.
Truth: No and like previous id titles any disk-check is being removed on the first patch.

n00b says: You can forget about a Steam release.
Truth: HL2, Episode One, Orange Box, Sin Episode 1 are published by EA and are on Steam. id is on Steam already as an independent vendor rather than being mixed in with the Activision listing.

n00b says: id is such a whore for selling out.
Truth: EA already published two id games and if id is a whore then so is Valve, CryTek, DICE, and a truckload of other companies you believe to walk on water.

n00b says: oh crap they're going to rush this stuff like the Battlefield series.
Truth: id has already said after the EA announcement. Rage is out when it's done.

I'm not really bothered unless they decide to make us buy D4 on EA Link and don't give us a hard copy (like they did with Northern Strike for BF2142 and couple other games).

I hope multiplayer won't be hosted by EA either. Servers aren't exactly their strong suit.

Regardless, RAGE definitely looks impressive.

multiplayer and rage?

qwertz123 wrote:

multiplayer and rage?

Yeah maybe.

I could be wrong. I was really just making more of a point about EA being crap.

Quote:

I'd say that means we'll have crappy copy protection now, definitely.

And no support either. The only saving grace is that id has a lot of integrity, and in spite of EA's propensity to release unfinished games, I have faith in id to publish a game that's finished. Still I am uneasy about this unholy alliance, and it's troubling that my favorite studio has made a deal with the devil with my least favorite publisher.

qwertz123 wrote:

multiplayer and rage?

Last year id said it was going to have COOP (in some parts of the game) and vestigial DM. Haven't read anthing that contradicts that yet.

Hemebond wrote:

Quote:

id Software today revealed that Electronic Arts will publish its upcoming titles

I'm not sure this is compatible with my principals.

Change schools. :lol:

Mordenkainen wrote:

qwertz123 wrote:

multiplayer and rage?

Last year id said it was going to have COOP (in some parts of the game) and vestigial DM. Haven't read anthing that contradicts that yet.

right, coop. but no further details were exposed with reagrd to a mp part.

edit: wrong topic :oops:

While I hope the game is on Steam too, I applaud this move wholeheartedly. Granted, this is because of personal reasons: here in Brazil, EA is ages ahead of Activision. They understand the market and they want to sell. Activision, on the other hand, have removed themselves from the market ages ago though - their games were already published by EA Brasil around here by way of a local partnership. This move will just make the publishing easier and faster.

Mordenkainen wrote:

...and look amazing in static shots and whenever dynamic light/shadows don't come into the picture...

is static lighting only for the outdoor stuff? i was thinking (or hoping) that indoors would have dynamic lighting.

zeh wrote:

While I hope the game is on Steam too, I applaud this move wholeheartedly. Granted, this is because of personal reasons: here in Brazil, EA is ages ahead of Activision. They understand the market and they want to sell. Activision, on the other hand, have removed themselves from the market ages ago though - their games were already published by EA Brasil around here by way of a local partnership. This move will just make the publishing easier and faster.

Not just in Brasil man. Here in Portugal Activision games are notoriously late and Quake 4 CE never got released here at all.

pbmax wrote:

Mordenkainen wrote:

...and look amazing in static shots and whenever dynamic light/shadows don't come into the picture...

is static lighting only for the outdoor stuff? i was thinking (or hoping) that indoors would have dynamic lighting.

From last year's JC keynote/interviews the indoor parts were dynamic but the feeling I got was that they were still debating whether they wanted to have 60hz just for the outdoor parts (for the smooth racing) or the entire game.

Btw, kinda nitpicking here but Rage will still have dynamic lighting even outdoors but a great deal of the lighting/shadows will be baked in. Think CoD4 as a recent example. Still using lightmaps but guns etc. still lit up walls and the ground.

My main issue with the baked lighting will be shadowing though. I can't get over the nasty double-shadow artefact shown in last year's trailers. Reminds me of HL2's double-shadow artefacts :headbangingagainstmonitoremoticon:

Mordenkainen wrote:

n00b says: OMGOMG this is going to have DRM up the arse.
Truth: No and like previous id titles any disk-check is being removed on the first patch.

Come on man, I don't sound like that. When have I ever said something like "OMGOMG"? Give me some credit at least.

CrimsonHead wrote:

Mordenkainen wrote:

n00b says: OMGOMG this is going to have DRM up the arse.
Truth: No and like previous id titles any disk-check is being removed on the first patch.

Come on man, I don't sound like that. When have I ever said something like "OMGOMG"? Give me some credit at least.

Heh, I wasn't talking about you though. I was making fun of people on Blues and Teh Shack dissing id/Carmack/whoever because Rage now is going to have DRM just like Mass Effect. I went back and re-read your post and you're quite composed and balanced. You simply hope it won't be like that. There are people on the intertubes putting JC on their shitlist already, those are the targets of my sarcasm.

and i thought JC is on almost all shitlists since he did that rocket stuff... :lol:

anyway; backed lightning: quakewars has that too and the only thing u'll miss is possibly day and night cycles.

I was just kidding around

That does sound pretty dumb and well deserving of your sarcasm. There's nothing for anyone to criticize yet when no one knows the real facts about it at the moment, I'd never go so far as to start criticizing already. You know what they say about assumptions...You're right they are noobs.

id is a very big name and a guaranteed million copy seller, I would think they have a little more leverage and pull than the average development house. I still have a lot of hope that everything will be OK.

well quakecon starts in under 3 weeks, hopefully we get more after that, like some direct feed damnit.

qwertz123 wrote:

anyway; backed lightning: quakewars has that too and the only thing u'll miss is possibly day and night cycles.

QW has partially-baked lighting. I.e. there's still a real-time contribution. And unlike Rage, in general, it also has no shadow baking (except for the odd tree shadows here and there and ambient occlusion). Even this means you get double-shadows. Go into Ark, first objective to the left of the generator when facing the strogg base. There are a couple of trees with their shadows baked in. Now go into into third person and see the double-shadows. Here it's not even a big deal because the baked tree shadow is sufficiently soft that it's nearly ambient occlusion but this is seen very clearly in last year's Rage trailer when the buggy is fully enveloped by the canyon's shadow. Even in this year's trailer you can notice the different shadow techniques when the buggy aproaches the fort.

It's not just day/night cycles. It's any time a moving shadow caster aproaches, or is envoloped by, a static occluder. In fact, QW actually works better with day/night cycles than Rage ever will because it doesn't have any (major) shadow baking. The terrain shadows are dynamic, same as the players and vehicles and they use the same technique so there's no visual difference. You can change the atmosphere (i.e. Sun position) on any QW map and it will still look good unless you actively go look for the baked tree shadows that are now facing the wrong way. In Rage, if the canyon's shadow is baked there's no need to look for the artefact.

Quake 3 did'nt have real fog it was hacked in, Doom was'nt real 3d, who cares if it was'nt the proper way It still looked good and I was wowed by it at the time. I don't care much about what is under the hood, whether it's done the proper way or if it's hacked in it does'nt matter as long as it looks good, if it looks good and believable the end justifies the means.

Rage looks good, and I mean GOOD, the only thing that might be a downer for me about the lighting method is I'm wondering does that mean we'll see the return of super-lengthy level compiling times again?

John Carmack, David DeMartini, and Tim Willits discuss the newly announced partnership between Id Software and EA.

more carmack talk about going with EA:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=19423
http://kotaku.com/5025229/carmack-talks ... rogramming

i have a question... when carmack says they will be "shopping doom4 around to publishers", what kind of deal is made? does EA for example give id $100 million plus royalties? or does id get 50% of all procedes? how does a publishing deal work between the two parties?

it sounds like so far they funded Rage themselves, but probably need more money to finish it...

I don't think any of their publishing deals have ever been disclosed to the public. Publishing deals vary quite a bit from case to case; publishers can pay the developers tons of money and then get nearly all the proceeds from sales, but it's common that publishers "invest" in the project in terms of cash, to ensure that the developers will be able to hire new people when needed, and to cover some percentage of development costs. The publisher will then also handle marketing and testing of the game, and perhaps take something like 90% of the proceeds.

Gena wrote:

John Carmack, David DeMartini, and Tim Willits discuss the newly announced partnership between Id Software and EA.

"yup, wolfenstein comes back to us real soon also" (5:03)

did john actually say that? my reading comprehension is by far better than to have hear it

crap, this 4 part interview ain't working for me:

http://kotaku.com/5025229/carmack-talks ... rogramming

not working for me either... what a shame

Is there anywhere else to find this?

Great video, thanks a lot Gena.

An interesting thing is they mention they've talked with Valve when shopping around and asking questions about EA's partnerships. And they didn't say anything about online distribution. I hope this means they're also looking into publishing in Steam.

Quote:

i have a question... when carmack says they will be "shopping doom4 around to publishers", what kind of deal is made? does EA for example give id $100 million plus royalties? or does id get 50% of all procedes? how does a publishing deal work between the two parties?

I assume id is a special case when it comes to publishing. Most publishers would want to release a game like Rage, especially since it's developed by id. They would probably offer X amount of money to entice id to get a contract with them then a 60/40 deal or a 50/50 deal. The publisher will then expect to recoup the initial fund from the profits of the game.

i really want to see the interviews at kotaku, but its not working for me. here's the souce html. is there a way i can patch together a link?

Code:

<p><script type="text/javascript">
newVideoPlayer("/john1.flv", 506, 423,"");
</script><img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/stills/john1.flv.jpg"    style="display:block;display: none;" /></p>
<p><script type="text/javascript">
newVideoPlayer("/john2.flv", 506, 423,"");
</script><img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/stills/john2.flv.jpg"    style="display:block;display: none;" /></p>
<p><script type="text/javascript">
newVideoPlayer("/john3.flv", 506, 423,"");
</script><img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/stills/john3.flv.jpg"    style="display:block;display: none;" /></p>
<p><script type="text/javascript">
newVideoPlayer("/john4.flv", 506, 423,"");
</script><img src="http://cache.gawker.com/assets/stills/john4.flv.jpg"    style="display:block;display: none;" /></p>

Works for me in opera.

Basicly the same stuff told like in the gamespot interview.

At the end Carmack talks about doom4 being created on id tech 5 but as a 30hz game unlike rage wich runs at 60hz.
According to him doom4 will look 3 times more spectacular then rage on the same engine

ZizZ^ wrote:

Works for me in opera.

Basicly the same stuff told like in the gamespot interview.

At the end Carmack talks about doom4 being created on id tech 5 but as a 30hz game unlike rage wich runs at 60hz.
According to him doom4 will look 3 times more spectacular then rage on the same engine

HELL YEAH! Just imagine how glorious the demons and the zombies are going to look!

EDIT: Question. Does this mean that it will have a slower frame rate?

john_doe2 wrote:

EDIT: Question. Does this mean that it will have a slower frame rate?

yes. it will be locked at 30fps where as Rage is locked at 60fps.

carmack has stated that at 30fps, you can achieve just about anything you'd want to with idTech5. and now we'll get to see it!

Nicholas wrote:

Hemebond wrote:

Quote:

id Software today revealed that Electronic Arts will publish its upcoming titles

I'm not sure this is compatible with my principals.

Change schools. :lol:

Doh! Self-pwnd. I meant principles, obviously.

I didn't know earlier id games had CD copy protection. When did that start?

With Quake in a way. The music was CD Audio tracks. Not sure if it was required to have the CD in to play though.

Kristus wrote:

With Quake in a way. The music was CD Audio tracks. Not sure if it was required to have the CD in to play though.

Neither Quake 1, 2 or 3 required the CD.

pbmax wrote:

more carmack talk about going with EA:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=19423
http://kotaku.com/5025229/carmack-talks ... rogramming

i have a question... when carmack says they will be "shopping doom4 around to publishers", what kind of deal is made? does EA for example give id $100 million plus royalties? or does id get 50% of all procedes? how does a publishing deal work between the two parties?

it sounds like so far they funded Rage themselves, but probably need more money to finish it...

Oy, you are asking a VERY big question their. It varies alot from the normal situation, to big name independents like id that are able to sle-funfd their games. But the usual deal is one where the developer signs over all the IP rights to the franchise in question, where as id(or 3D Realms, Epic, Remedy and Valve as some of the few other examples) is able to fully self-fund their games and there by get to keep the IP rights, including the publishing rights to sequels(Although for various reasons, the might CHOOSE to do multi-game deals).

For some more info on this check out these articles:

http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2004/01/contract_deal_p.html

http://dukenukem.typepad.com/game_matters/2003/12/royalties_and_a.html

http://www.igda.org/articles/smiller_commandments.php

http://www.igda.org/biz/contract_walkthrough.php(as it says you must be registered to read these).

In addition to that there are two full contracts I could find online, one even with industry expert commentary:

You can see the Call Of Duty: Finest Hour contract with expert commentary here: http://gamasutra.com/features/20070112/spark_01.shtml

Note this is a more standard contract with publisher IP ownership and all, but a bit on the omnious side of things. However in this case not even a Valve could have gotten IP ownership, since it was an already established brand that Acitivision already owned.

The publishing contract between 3D Realms and GOD Games for Max Payne can be found here: http://www.secinfo.com/d12atd.4FA7p.c.htm.

These two contracts show how sharp the differences with regard to IP ownership wording can be, compare the wording found here with the following text from the Max Payne agreement:

Quote:

9.1 Developer shall be the owner of all intellectual property rights in the
Game and the deliverables related thereto created or developed by Developer,
including without limitation, all copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade
secrets, and other proprietary rights. The Game and the deliverables related
thereto shall not be considered works made for hire under the Copyright Act.
Gathering shall be the owner of all intellectual property rights in all products
and materials created by Gathering, subject to any underlying rights of
Developer.

.

ZizZ^ wrote:

Works for me in opera.

Basicly the same stuff told like in the gamespot interview.

At the end Carmack talks about doom4 being created on id tech 5 but as a 30hz game unlike rage wich runs at 60hz.
According to him doom4 will look 3 times more spectacular then rage on the same engine

Oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Gimme, gimme, gimme!

pbmax, I don't think JC means it will be locked at 30fps. Check out last year's IGN video interview with John and Matt where JC says Rage is a 60 Hz game (60fps) because they want the game to be smooth for the racing parts and how a licensee can make their game looks 3 times better than Rage if they aim for 30 Hz instead, like DOOM 3 did. It's a performance threshold, not any engine limitation. JC goes on to say that you can have 3 times the detail if you aim for 30fps instead of 60fps game because to get 60fps on Rage they had to undershoot quite a bit.

CrimsonHead wrote:

Rage looks good, and I mean GOOD, the only thing that might be a downer for me about the lighting method is I'm wondering does that mean we'll see the return of super-lengthy level compiling times again?

Compiling the megatexture for ETQW's terrains takes quite a bit of time. You do have a relatively fast preview in editor that takes a few seconds for a small area. In last year's id Tech 5 videos you see Matt stamping down and it's pretty fast but I don't know if that's for the stamping phase or if they managed to speed up the whole MT process.

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

These Concept art looks really impressive:
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/17098/Rage-First-Images/

pbmax wrote:

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

why u thinks so? quakewars was supposed to be locked at 30fps (renderer) aswell and god knows good reasons for why it's now unlocked. give me only 30fps capped games on pc and i'll quit gaming.

qwertz123 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

why u thinks so? quakewars was supposed to be locked at 30fps (renderer) aswell and god knows good reasons for why it's now unlocked. give me only 30fps capped games on pc and i'll quit gaming.

I find it hard to believe that people are having issues with 30 fps. If you ask me this is just bigtalk. I play my games regularly while they fluctuate between 20-30 FPS, I like my settings high and I have no issues at all with stuttering or blinking of the screen.

Perhaps you should take a look at investing money in a good monitor, because most people won't discern the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

BloodRayne wrote:

qwertz123 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

why u thinks so? quakewars was supposed to be locked at 30fps (renderer) aswell and god knows good reasons for why it's now unlocked. give me only 30fps capped games on pc and i'll quit gaming.

I find it hard to believe that people are having issues with 30 fps. If you ask me this is just bigtalk. I play my games regularly while they fluctuate between 20-30 FPS, I like my settings high and I have no issues at all with stuttering or blinking of the screen.

Perhaps you should take a look at investing money in a good monitor, because most people won't discern the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

quite simple: download the quakewars demo and start a botmatch (capped at 30fps). it's a lot more different than let's say, playing crysis @ veryhigh with averaging 25fps. i dunno why so.

/starts a petition against capped framerates

qwertz123 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

why u thinks so? quakewars was supposed to be locked at 30fps (renderer) aswell and god knows good reasons for why it's now unlocked. give me only 30fps capped games on pc and i'll quit gaming.

on the consoles, yes. on the PC, you'll probably be able to unlock it.

Quote:

probably

sounds so vague. hopefully carmacks reveals more on this at his quakecon speech.

BloodRayne wrote:

qwertz123 wrote:

pbmax wrote:

well, i think they might lock it at 30fps simply to keep a steady frame rate. but you're right, its not a hardcoded limitation.

why u thinks so? quakewars was supposed to be locked at 30fps (renderer) aswell and god knows good reasons for why it's now unlocked. give me only 30fps capped games on pc and i'll quit gaming.

I find it hard to believe that people are having issues with 30 fps. If you ask me this is just bigtalk. I play my games regularly while they fluctuate between 20-30 FPS, I like my settings high and I have no issues at all with stuttering or blinking of the screen.

Perhaps you should take a look at investing money in a good monitor, because most people won't discern the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

I'm one of those people, I honestly don't notice a difference, when I play Quake Wars nothing looks choppy to me at all.

Some people just don't notice the difference, a lot of others I think are just obsessed with really big numbers, they spend big numbers of money to get big numbers on their hardware specs and they feel cheated if their games don't give them big numbers. It's not uncommon to hear the same type of people usually bragging about their 200 GB HD or something along those lines and then you look at their PC and see that they only use around 60-70 gigs of it. Why spend the extra money on something they probably won't ever even fully utilize? They want those big numbers, something to brag about.

CrimsonHead wrote:

... bragging about their 200 GB HD or something along those lines and then you look at their PC and see that they only use around 60-70 gigs of it...

Out of context, but

BloodRayne wrote:

Perhaps you should take a look at investing money in a good monitor, because most people won't discern the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

They will during extended play periods as the lower Hz causes eye strain.

Mordenkainen wrote:

Compiling the megatexture for ETQW's terrains takes quite a bit of time. You do have a relatively fast preview in editor that takes a few seconds for a small area. In last year's id Tech 5 videos you see Matt stamping down and it's pretty fast but I don't know if that's for the stamping phase or if they managed to speed up the whole MT process.

Well, in the vid where they're demonstrating the tech, it only takes a moment for them to compile the texture. And it's still easily reversible. They also stress that it's updated in real time for all the platforms simultaneously. So I think it's safe to say it's not at all the same tech as used in ETQW.

asmodeus wrote:

BloodRayne wrote:

Perhaps you should take a look at investing money in a good monitor, because most people won't discern the difference between 30 and 60 fps.

They will during extended play periods as the lower Hz causes eye strain.

There is a difference between a game's FPS and you're monitor's refresh rate, there is a difference between internal Tic rate and FPS (saying just to make sure

).

The internal tick rate of Rage will most likely be 30. That doesn't mean that your game will be streamed to your monitor with a maximum of 30 FPS. It just means animations and the engine itself are likely to run at a Tic rate of 30, big difference there. It also doesn't mean your monitor will run at 30 Hz. (most monitors can't even run on 30 Hz. and most common LCD monitors are capped at 60 Hz. in any case.)

Eye strain usually means that one needs to:
- Use a higher refresh rate for your monitor (e.g. I use a refresh rate of 120 at 1280x1024 on my LCD monitor)
- Adjust brightness, contrast, gamma and sharpness of the monitor, as well as new calibration (for e.g. the moire effect).
- Buy a better monitor.

It does not mean 'Games should have higher FPS'. FPS is not the same as the refresh rate of your monitor, nor does it mean 'chuggy gameplay' when you're playing at 30 FPS.

A.f.a.i.k. Game play below 30 fps on a good set-up only very seldomly causes eye strain, and only with individuals that are proned to it.

id would never lock a game's FPS at 30, that is extremely low. There is a definite difference between 30 and 60, but when you go higher than that, you can tell the difference if you change the refresh rate. There is a noticeable difference between 60 and 90 if you change your monitor from 60 to 75 or 85 hz. Quake4 with si_fps 90 and r_displayrefresh 75 or higher, you can definitely see a difference from 60.

TelMarine wrote:

id would never lock a game's FPS at 30, that is extremely low.

yes they would and have. doom3 on the xbox is locked at 30fps.

we are talking about consoles now. it seems that some have a hard time remembering that the xbox360 is id's main development platform now. so Rage on the consoles will be locked at 60fps and Doom4 will be locked at 30.

its going to be locked so that gamers have a steady solid frame rate. you don't want a frame rate that fluctuates up and down because its noticable and its a distraction.

but i'm sure we'll have an option to unlock it on the PC.

Hemebond wrote:

Kristus wrote:

With Quake in a way. The music was CD Audio tracks. Not sure if it was required to have the CD in to play though.

Neither Quake 1, 2 or 3 required the CD.

dude, your comment is so wrong and nobody argues to know better in here? quake3 was cd "free" with patch 1.16g (did google it but found no patchlog; maybe it's to long ago?) and u could stream quake3 from cd; i dunno but maybe it was john first idea of his "streaming technology" called MEGAsomewhat

qwertz123 wrote:

Gena wrote:

John Carmack, David DeMartini, and Tim Willits discuss the newly announced partnership between Id Software and EA.

"yup, wolfenstein comes back to us real soon also" (5:03)

did john actually say that? my reading comprehension is by far better than to have hear it

really nobody willed to help me out here?

Yeah, he did indeed say that.

no joke?

maybe my english is f*ucked up and my nature language (reading too much kafka) makes it even more complicated to type here; but it's really my bitter will to "know" it as a fact.

thanks in advance.

pbmax wrote:

TelMarine wrote:

id would never lock a game's FPS at 30, that is extremely low.

yes they would and have. doom3 on the xbox is locked at 30fps.

we are talking about consoles now. it seems that some have a hard time remembering that the xbox360 is id's main development platform now. so Rage on the consoles will be locked at 60fps and Doom4 will be locked at 30.

its going to be locked so that gamers have a steady solid frame rate. you don't want a frame rate that fluctuates up and down because its noticable and its a distraction.

but i'm sure we'll have an option to unlock it on the PC.

well if you are talking consoles, then yes, it might be locked to 30, but on PC, it wont be. It will be unlocked from the start. I mean doom3 not being able to be uncapped from 60 fps (62.5) had a lot of people complaining and it took me a while to understand. With Quake4, they added in a patch a command to uncap it up to 125, then I could see why people wanted it and id has definitely learned from that.

"history repeats itself" great song on the Natural Born Killers soundtrack.

anyway: bioshock comes to mind.

"History repeats itself" made me think of a classic punk album from way back when. The song I am thinking of is by "Big Boys". Wow, I could still sing everyone of them there songs.

SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN LP
Label: BYO Records
Cat. #: BYO 004
Released: 1984

1. NILS "Scratches & Needles"
2. RIGOR MORTIS "Silent Scream"
3. BIG BOYS "History"
4. UNWANTED "Tanks Keep Rolling"
5. TOURISTS "Memories"
6. KRAUT "Pyramids"
7. YOUTH BRIGADE "Care"
8. YOUTH YOUTH YOUTH "Domination"
9. SNFU "Womanizer"
10. PERSONALITY CRISIS "Piss On You"
11. CHANNEL 3 "Indian Summer"
12. YOUNG LIONS "In a Field"
13. ZEROPTION "Realpolitik"
14. DOA "Tits On the Beach"
15. 7 SECONDS "Out of Touch"
16. STRETCH MARKS "Foreign Policies"

Kristus wrote:

Well, in the vid where they're demonstrating the tech, it only takes a moment for them to compile the texture. And it's still easily reversible. They also stress that it's updated in real time for all the platforms simultaneously. So I think it's safe to say it's not at all the same tech as used in ETQW.

As I mentioned, it is fast during the stamping phase (and tile now that I think about it). But in those videos we're never shown how they create the base layer for the MT, which is what sucks up so much time in ETQW. Stamping down in ETQW is also quite fast.

I see MixoM is still in da mix!

Brain Trepaning wrote:

"History repeats itself" made me think of a classic punk album from way back when. The song I am thinking of is by "Big Boys". Wow, I could still sing everyone of them there songs.

SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN LP
Label: BYO Records
Cat. #: BYO 004
Released: 1984

1. NILS "Scratches & Needles"
2. RIGOR MORTIS "Silent Scream"
3. BIG BOYS "History"
4. UNWANTED "Tanks Keep Rolling"
5. TOURISTS "Memories"
6. KRAUT "Pyramids"
7. YOUTH BRIGADE "Care"
8. YOUTH YOUTH YOUTH "Domination"
9. SNFU "Womanizer"
10. PERSONALITY CRISIS "Piss On You"
11. CHANNEL 3 "Indian Summer"
12. YOUNG LIONS "In a Field"
13. ZEROPTION "Realpolitik"
14. DOA "Tits On the Beach"
15. 7 SECONDS "Out of Touch"
16. STRETCH MARKS "Foreign Policies"

wau, i really like all that old stuff, like chabrol and godard in cinematics; but hey let's talk about music: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu ... =166993018 15 years later and i feel still like unborn