I've been struggling with these monkeys for a long time now but I feel I've done the best I can. I'd like to get some last minute opinions before they're shown with normalmaps in-game. I figure these model viewers are the best way, to put all textures and even shading out of the question and focus entirely on form and structure, so you can see the wireframe and vertices using the menu. Also so you can see it all from every angle and I don't get comments like "the legs are too long" because it's tilted backward, then "the legs are too short" when it's tilted forward.

LMB rotates and RMB zooms.
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviohuman080729.zip 130KB

Please also note that the characters top half is supposed to be essentially "nude", while the bottom half is supposed to represent moreso pants and shoes/boots, on purpose. This throws some people off but it makes more sense to not model barefoot characters when they might get used once or twice, 99% of characters will be wearing boots while the top half is more open to different designs.

Beyond this is the UV mapping I've painstakingly sewn and massaged from scratch to allow _most_ characters to be compatible with _most_ features between them all, such as a bearded woman for example. None of this auto-unwrapped business, nothing beats a home cooked UV map in my opinion, you can actually get some of those warps and seams to work in your favour, I believe. They share in a collection of 130 4MP displacement maps that I've gone over and over with me new Wacom Bamboo that get used at different mesh subdivisions to work up to several million triangles worth of bakes and so far the normalmaps have come out seamless, when talking about essentially naked characters. It works a little bit like the character builder in TESIV-Oblivion, different areas can be individually tweaked to get almost any unique character you want out of it, so it's been a long time coming but in the end many different characters can quickly be created.

I still plan to share all this so others can use it in other projects, but I want to make it worth while and put under scrutiny beforehand.

Well I like them. They are very smooth and I think I can get a good picture of what your on about. Keep it up man!

They're looking good, what's the polycount?

Ps: So bad we can't pan the modelviewer's window when have zoomed.

I'm kinda confused here. What is these actually? Models for modelling programs for everone's personal use or what? Free human models are always welcome

Thanks for the approving comments so far, but please don't hesitate to be a real bastard about this, hurt my feelings, see my heart on my sleeve and punch it right in the guts, destroy me! So long as you can do it in a constructive way, I'll be grateful. Just exclude the "lmfao this sucks, you'll never make it, give up dude, give up" kinda comments (as I've had from this community previously), and all shall be swell.
The polycount it currently ~2100 but that is excluding the eyeballs, teeth and some other cuts around the wrists and ankles that most characters will have, for clothing.

Yes, this will be a free resource for everyone to use, and regardless of what engine you're using, Doom3, Quake 4, Prey, ET:QW, whatever you want, so long as it uses conventional normalmaps and rigging similar to idtech4, all should be fine. But I want to have them fully complete first, meaning all displacements are ready and there's some finalised examples to go with it, and make it as easy as possible for people to grab it and make their own human characters in almost no time at all.

Is it possible to zoom in and out or pan using this application? I'd like to see the wireframes but they're rendered so thick and they all are the same color irrespective of distance to the camera you can't really make anything out.

I don't think you can pan in that viewer, but RMB will zoom. I'm happy to show a pic of the wireframe of the face, though, I guess that's a main point of interest:-
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/viohumanwire080812.jpg
The textured (normalmapped) versions are almost ready to show *gulp* just need to tidy up some details.

The hands of the woman are a bit big.

Thanks, I keep overlooking those. I worry about the size difference since I want them to fit the same rigs/animations, and how the hands would look holding weapons, etc.

Despite my better judgment to show things that are not finished, I figure this community has matured with the aging of the technology and departure of hype-mongering wannabes, I've decided to show what the characters look like in-game with the normalmaps on:-
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviofemingame080310.jpg
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviomaningame080309b.jpg
Yes they are hi-res versions (6000+ triangles), but these are in-game hi-res versions that will get used for cinematics and certain other things, when you only see 1 character against some low-poly background or something, so it's still all legitimate. Infact I wish more games would do this. Anyway, I'm aware of many of their problems, and like I said they are not 100% complete yet, still some tweaks to get done.

...alright then, here's how it works:-

Quote:

"The mouth is too flat and undefined, it needs more proper shaping and colouring, and a more defined edge around it, to look like a real mouth."

Quote:

"The skin is too waxy, it needs less overall highlights and help it look more like normal dry skin that soaks light more than reflects it."

Those are valid responses, and after a dozen or so different points of view, I'd have a nice little list that I can get busy improving the models so I can release them. I refuse to believe they are absolute crap, I know they're not, even though lack of response here would imply that, I force myself to believe there's another factor involved, not sure what it is though. I just know how people are with people, judgmental as all hell. Don't worry, no ones feelings will get hurt. All the more important we get feedback and can improve. We need you.
...by the way, I forgot to mention, we are in need of some proper textures soon, these versions are using old "textures" (diffuse-only) that have been warped and edited that many times, they no longer hold any interesting detail, it's mostly all turned into skin-tone by now. If you're interested in having a likeness of yourself getting shot to pieces, please don't hesitate to contact me, that will all be happening real soon. All ages, races and genders needed.

Quote:

"Some details are imbalanced, like the veins on the forehead being too strong while other features around the eyes, nose and mouth remain perhaps too weak."

Now your turn...

Cant tell about mesh layout/deformation since its pretty hard to see the mesh in the previewer.

another one you could try - which allows to switch texture/meshlayout and zoom :

Code:

http://www.devmex.com/downloads/3DExe-Bin.zip

note: its not mine but i think it is save to share!

Hands are looking indeed like wearing gloves but the bigger shoulders, hands are, the easier they seam to be animated.
I would need to take a closer look onto the hands and other "bend areas" but you added the extra polys below the buttocks so i guess the mesh will deform well.

For the texture, i guess - let the specmap do the work for you. Atm. it looks like even, glossy skin - experiment with a noise filter on the specmap or try a extra bumpmap for pores etc. (i dont like the "bad skin" models though - why are some game characters aint getting anough sleep

.

On older people youll see some vains, if the skin is very thin in that area - on younger people maybe just "in furious anger". Dont know how you call it (labial arch?) but the smilewrinkle starts a little higher, on the side(s) of the nose.

hth, low

Quote:

another one you could try

Thanks, but that's the _exact_ one I've used already.

If there's another free system-friendly (doesn't need dual-GPU) model viewer that wraps the mesh and texture into some 'protected' binary format, I've never found it.

Quote:

let the specmap do the work for you

I've got a number of things going on with the material, I guess specularmap is actually my enemy here. Maybe it's a lame excuse, but I blame the engine. I've never seen a character in this engine (or even this type of engine) that didn't look like some rubber/plaster (no specular) or plastic (specular) doll. I think I understand materials pretty well, and I can't think of anything to "add" that would help it more than harm it, so I guess I need to rethink it.

Quote:

why are some game characters aint getting anough sleep

This is part of the process of testing all displacement(bump) maps at once within the base, they are bound to look a little aged because they contain a little bit of everything. Some proper characters won't use the old-age displacements at all, but it's important to test them all at once.

Quote:

the smilewrinkle starts a little higher

You're right, it's supposed to meet the upper edge of the outer nostril, normally. Thanks a lot for your help lowdragon, extremely helpful more than likely realised!

This is why I really need feedback, because it may all seem real obvious to you guys, but you're not the ones that have built it from scratch and been staring at it countless hours. Eventually your sense of perception gives in and you need external feedback from critical but good honest people. Where are they all.

Your skin tones will look like plastic with a spec map unless you give them colour. If you use a greyscale spec map textures will always look bland an un interested. I find a blueish tone to skin and metal really makes things pop, with browns for more organic things like dirt etc etc... I'm sure you can figure these out.

I don't have many problems with skin textures looking like plastic, because of colour spec maps.

Thanks for the tip. The specular maps have a _slight_ opposing hue, just like in Doom3/Quake 4/Prey, you're right they probably need more, but my point was - these are titles that in which all human skin-tone looks unnatural, either plastic, rubber or plaster, moreso under harsh lighting conditions, which should always be checked and displayed.
If you're using this engine, I'd love to see these perfect skin tones you have that beat the folks at id Software/Raven/Human Head, otherwise you've misunderstood what I was saying. Doom3 engine is this midway point between flat "photographic" (HL2) skin-tone, and whatever trendy shaders are being used nowadays that Doom3 doesn't have, like "subsurface scattering", which some gentle soul kindly suggested I make use of.
There are some .VFPs getting around for this sort of thing apparently, but they didn't come with Doom3 and I can't get any response from the author to use them, even if I could do so effectively.

Got a link to these vfps?

Dafama2K7's "NG Shaders" for Quake 4 has some interestingly titled ones:-
skin.vfp, hair.vfp, cloth.vfp, interaction_Natural*.vfp, membrane.vfp
http://quake4.filefront.com/file/Next_Generation_shaders;88366
I haven't gotten around to fully checking them all out, there's like 300, but I imagine some really cool stuff can be done with them.

I've been struggling with these monkeys for a long time now but I feel I've done the best I can. I'd like to get some last minute opinions before they're shown with normalmaps in-game. I figure these model viewers are the best way, to put all textures and even shading out of the question and focus entirely on form and structure, so you can see the wireframe and vertices using the menu. Also so you can see it all from every angle and I don't get comments like "the legs are too long" because it's tilted backward, then "the legs are too short" when it's tilted forward.

LMB rotates and RMB zooms.
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviohuman080729.zip 130KB

Please also note that the characters top half is supposed to be essentially "nude", while the bottom half is supposed to represent moreso pants and shoes/boots, on purpose. This throws some people off but it makes more sense to not model barefoot characters when they might get used once or twice, 99% of characters will be wearing boots while the top half is more open to different designs.

Beyond this is the UV mapping I've painstakingly sewn and massaged from scratch to allow _most_ characters to be compatible with _most_ features between them all, such as a bearded woman for example. None of this auto-unwrapped business, nothing beats a home cooked UV map in my opinion, you can actually get some of those warps and seams to work in your favour, I believe. They share in a collection of 130 4MP displacement maps that I've gone over and over with me new Wacom Bamboo that get used at different mesh subdivisions to work up to several million triangles worth of bakes and so far the normalmaps have come out seamless, when talking about essentially naked characters. It works a little bit like the character builder in TESIV-Oblivion, different areas can be individually tweaked to get almost any unique character you want out of it, so it's been a long time coming but in the end many different characters can quickly be created.

I still plan to share all this so others can use it in other projects, but I want to make it worth while and put under scrutiny beforehand.

Well I like them. They are very smooth and I think I can get a good picture of what your on about. Keep it up man!

They're looking good, what's the polycount?

Ps: So bad we can't pan the modelviewer's window when have zoomed.

I'm kinda confused here. What is these actually? Models for modelling programs for everone's personal use or what? Free human models are always welcome

Thanks for the approving comments so far, but please don't hesitate to be a real bastard about this, hurt my feelings, see my heart on my sleeve and punch it right in the guts, destroy me! So long as you can do it in a constructive way, I'll be grateful. Just exclude the "lmfao this sucks, you'll never make it, give up dude, give up" kinda comments (as I've had from this community previously), and all shall be swell.
The polycount it currently ~2100 but that is excluding the eyeballs, teeth and some other cuts around the wrists and ankles that most characters will have, for clothing.

Yes, this will be a free resource for everyone to use, and regardless of what engine you're using, Doom3, Quake 4, Prey, ET:QW, whatever you want, so long as it uses conventional normalmaps and rigging similar to idtech4, all should be fine. But I want to have them fully complete first, meaning all displacements are ready and there's some finalised examples to go with it, and make it as easy as possible for people to grab it and make their own human characters in almost no time at all.

Is it possible to zoom in and out or pan using this application? I'd like to see the wireframes but they're rendered so thick and they all are the same color irrespective of distance to the camera you can't really make anything out.

I don't think you can pan in that viewer, but RMB will zoom. I'm happy to show a pic of the wireframe of the face, though, I guess that's a main point of interest:-
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/viohumanwire080812.jpg
The textured (normalmapped) versions are almost ready to show *gulp* just need to tidy up some details.

The hands of the woman are a bit big.

Thanks, I keep overlooking those. I worry about the size difference since I want them to fit the same rigs/animations, and how the hands would look holding weapons, etc.

Despite my better judgment to show things that are not finished, I figure this community has matured with the aging of the technology and departure of hype-mongering wannabes, I've decided to show what the characters look like in-game with the normalmaps on:-
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviofemingame080310.jpg
http://www.violationentertainment.com/temp/SHviomaningame080309b.jpg
Yes they are hi-res versions (6000+ triangles), but these are in-game hi-res versions that will get used for cinematics and certain other things, when you only see 1 character against some low-poly background or something, so it's still all legitimate. Infact I wish more games would do this. Anyway, I'm aware of many of their problems, and like I said they are not 100% complete yet, still some tweaks to get done.

...alright then, here's how it works:-

Quote:

"The mouth is too flat and undefined, it needs more proper shaping and colouring, and a more defined edge around it, to look like a real mouth."

Quote:

"The skin is too waxy, it needs less overall highlights and help it look more like normal dry skin that soaks light more than reflects it."

Those are valid responses, and after a dozen or so different points of view, I'd have a nice little list that I can get busy improving the models so I can release them. I refuse to believe they are absolute crap, I know they're not, even though lack of response here would imply that, I force myself to believe there's another factor involved, not sure what it is though. I just know how people are with people, judgmental as all hell. Don't worry, no ones feelings will get hurt. All the more important we get feedback and can improve. We need you.
...by the way, I forgot to mention, we are in need of some proper textures soon, these versions are using old "textures" (diffuse-only) that have been warped and edited that many times, they no longer hold any interesting detail, it's mostly all turned into skin-tone by now. If you're interested in having a likeness of yourself getting shot to pieces, please don't hesitate to contact me, that will all be happening real soon. All ages, races and genders needed.

Quote:

"Some details are imbalanced, like the veins on the forehead being too strong while other features around the eyes, nose and mouth remain perhaps too weak."

Now your turn...

Cant tell about mesh layout/deformation since its pretty hard to see the mesh in the previewer.

another one you could try - which allows to switch texture/meshlayout and zoom :

Code:

http://www.devmex.com/downloads/3DExe-Bin.zip

note: its not mine but i think it is save to share!

Hands are looking indeed like wearing gloves but the bigger shoulders, hands are, the easier they seam to be animated.
I would need to take a closer look onto the hands and other "bend areas" but you added the extra polys below the buttocks so i guess the mesh will deform well.

For the texture, i guess - let the specmap do the work for you. Atm. it looks like even, glossy skin - experiment with a noise filter on the specmap or try a extra bumpmap for pores etc. (i dont like the "bad skin" models though - why are some game characters aint getting anough sleep

.

On older people youll see some vains, if the skin is very thin in that area - on younger people maybe just "in furious anger". Dont know how you call it (labial arch?) but the smilewrinkle starts a little higher, on the side(s) of the nose.

hth, low

Quote:

another one you could try

Thanks, but that's the _exact_ one I've used already.

If there's another free system-friendly (doesn't need dual-GPU) model viewer that wraps the mesh and texture into some 'protected' binary format, I've never found it.

Quote:

let the specmap do the work for you

I've got a number of things going on with the material, I guess specularmap is actually my enemy here. Maybe it's a lame excuse, but I blame the engine. I've never seen a character in this engine (or even this type of engine) that didn't look like some rubber/plaster (no specular) or plastic (specular) doll. I think I understand materials pretty well, and I can't think of anything to "add" that would help it more than harm it, so I guess I need to rethink it.

Quote:

why are some game characters aint getting anough sleep

This is part of the process of testing all displacement(bump) maps at once within the base, they are bound to look a little aged because they contain a little bit of everything. Some proper characters won't use the old-age displacements at all, but it's important to test them all at once.

Quote:

the smilewrinkle starts a little higher

You're right, it's supposed to meet the upper edge of the outer nostril, normally. Thanks a lot for your help lowdragon, extremely helpful more than likely realised!

This is why I really need feedback, because it may all seem real obvious to you guys, but you're not the ones that have built it from scratch and been staring at it countless hours. Eventually your sense of perception gives in and you need external feedback from critical but good honest people. Where are they all.

Your skin tones will look like plastic with a spec map unless you give them colour. If you use a greyscale spec map textures will always look bland an un interested. I find a blueish tone to skin and metal really makes things pop, with browns for more organic things like dirt etc etc... I'm sure you can figure these out.

I don't have many problems with skin textures looking like plastic, because of colour spec maps.

Thanks for the tip. The specular maps have a _slight_ opposing hue, just like in Doom3/Quake 4/Prey, you're right they probably need more, but my point was - these are titles that in which all human skin-tone looks unnatural, either plastic, rubber or plaster, moreso under harsh lighting conditions, which should always be checked and displayed.
If you're using this engine, I'd love to see these perfect skin tones you have that beat the folks at id Software/Raven/Human Head, otherwise you've misunderstood what I was saying. Doom3 engine is this midway point between flat "photographic" (HL2) skin-tone, and whatever trendy shaders are being used nowadays that Doom3 doesn't have, like "subsurface scattering", which some gentle soul kindly suggested I make use of.
There are some .VFPs getting around for this sort of thing apparently, but they didn't come with Doom3 and I can't get any response from the author to use them, even if I could do so effectively.

Got a link to these vfps?

Dafama2K7's "NG Shaders" for Quake 4 has some interestingly titled ones:-
skin.vfp, hair.vfp, cloth.vfp, interaction_Natural*.vfp, membrane.vfp
http://quake4.filefront.com/file/Next_Generation_shaders;88366
I haven't gotten around to fully checking them all out, there's like 300, but I imagine some really cool stuff can be done with them.