CNN on ACORN's fraudulent attempts to register democrat voters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUKOSnv2zY

CNN again on ACORN shady voter drives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f4FMwitLak

USA Today on ACORN in Las Vegas registering the Dallas Cowboys:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/20 ... tml?csp=34

CNN on how the Democrats earmarked millions of dollars for ACRON in the bailout bill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BngyucCCAtc

FoxNews report that exapands on the Obama/ACORN connection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pgvp-hZjI

Wall St. Journal on Obama's ties to ACORN's voter registration tactics:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1209431 ... mmentaries

Wall St. Journal on ACORN & Obama:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html

Investors Business Daily on the ACORN & Obama connection:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edit ... 0381199062

Report on Obama's campaign sneaking $800,000 to ACORN:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 84284.html

ACORN Ohio openly admits it encourages voters to vote for Barack Obama:
http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/oh ... help-obama

FACT:
-In 1992, Obama led "Project VOTE", a Chicago voter registration drive in partnership with ACORN.
-In 1995, Obama and a team of Chicago attorneys won a 1995 suit on behalf of ACORN forcing the state of Illinois to implement the federal “motor-voter” bill.
-Chicago ACORN members worked for Obama's initial 1996 State Senate campaign and his failed 2000 Congress campaign.
-While a board member of Woods Fund & Joyce Foundation, Obama directed hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant money to ACORN.
-Obama's campaign recently gave ACORN $800,000.

Obama knows all about ACORN and their fraudulent tactics and yet he still supports them. And its no surprise that ACORN has endorsed Obama for President. In another close election, a few thousand fraudulant votes in a tight state could make all the difference.

The Democrats tried to earmark millions for ACORN in the bailbill with full knowledge of their shady tactics. The US government allready partially funds this leftist crooked group. This is completely sickening!

So why would I want to vote for a man with such poor judgement and dealings with a partisan, corrupt and fraudulent group like ACORN?

McCain sitting with ACORN at an ACORN co-sponsered event:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... ml?showall

To Quote the article

Quote:

Bertha Lewis, Acorn's chief organizer, said in a statement that came with the photo, “It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans."

Yeah, that was an immigration event, and McCain should not have been there. But that's McCain for you.

But his appearance at an ACORN immigration event is not in the same ballpark as Obama's inside involvment with and financial support of ACORN.

Calm down buddy. You're letting the media rile you up over something that will have no impact on the election.

Let's review. You've got a large number of inadmissible voter registrations being turned in on behalf of ACORN. Keep in mind we aren't talking about ballots but rather voter registration forms. What that means is that if there's any fraud taking place it's registration fraud and not voter fraud.

Fact: The word registration is 12 characters long.
Fact: The word voter is 5 characters long.
Fact: The word voter takes up less real estate on your TV (source: CNN).

Now here's the important part. The reason this story exists is because registration forms are screened before they are entered into the system. Case in point, these registrations have been found inadmissible. Real or otherwise these applicants will not be able to vote.

As far as ACORN and Obama's association, I think you need to re-examine the principles to which you hold people accountable. It seems to me like a double standard. Case in point, the entire chain of command is responsible for the torture in Abu Ghraib and Bush should be impeached. Guilt by association right? Anything less and you're being a hypocrite.

But hey no sweat off my balls. I'm voting third party. You can too.

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

Hey - it's a democracy! If the US wants to live in the scientific stone-age of creationism then let them do as they desire. And they only influence the world, but they don't rule the world.

Let's also point out that it was ACORN who properly submitted their registrations and flagged them as phony upon submission. It's required BY LAW for ACORN to submit every single registration, even the obviously fake ones. They can't do any weeding out, but they can split them into categories and say, "Hey, you might want to double-check these obviously silly ones." ACORN even attaches a bright cover sheet to the obviously bogus ones so there's no chance of them slipping through unnoticed.

There was no law breaking here. There was no sinister plot to register Mickey Mouse here and then have him vote for Obama. Instead, you have an organization dutifully following the law and even going beyond it by calling the people on the forms for confirmation, and flagging the bogus ones "just in case," then properly reporting all of them.

Separately, you have Nevada employing a bunch of morons that actually managed to ignore the cover sheets and so it was their mistake and blunder that mixed obviously phony registrations in with potentially good ones. ACORN did their job. Nevada state employees didn't do theirs.

What this did, though, is give John McCain who has been floundering for some kind of boogyman story a chance for he and his campaign to try to scare the public and confuse an EVERY DAY OCCURRENCE of any "voter registration" silliness (this is not the first time someone has tried to register Mickey Mouse, people!) with "voter fraud." The only difference between previous years and now is that the volume of fraudulent registrations are higher than normal. Still, there are obviously systems in place to catch the phony ones. And, ACORN also FIRES anyone that is shown to turn in fraudulent voter registrations.

Most importantly, though, is the need to note that voter REGISTRATION is very different from voter FRAUD.

Apparently CNN, FoxNews, and many other news outlets are too stupid to get it straight. I watched FoxNews last night and they said "voter registration" maybe half the number of times they said "voter fraud." And, the entire night, they had next to their "Alert" text the words, "Voter fraud?" in the right-hand corner. That's sensational journalism at its worst.

The headline of all of those stories pbmax posted "should" read something more like:

Obama supports Company that Follows Law and Properly Flags Phony Voter Registrations

What I found hilarious was that, for example in the CNN story, they made no mention of how ACORN flags phony registrations. I guess the morons at the Lake County Indiana voter registration office are as dumb as their Nevada counterparts and are too stupid to read the coversheets that said, "Hey these are probably fakes."

This is a non-story and a non-issue. And for someone who doesn't "like McCain," you're sure doing a great job of slinging the same bullshit he and his campaign are peddling, pbmax!

Now, please go respond to my post about why Americans should be okay with a VP pick who has been shown to have BROKEN THE LAW and then LIED ABOUT IT.

Thanks!

goliathvt wrote:

Now, please go respond to my post about why Americans should be okay with a VP pick who has been shown to have BROKEN THE LAW and then LIED ABOUT IT.

She's a hockey mum, so give her a break, she probably even didn't know she broke the law since she's not aware of laws and if she lied it's been a white lie at worst. Let's focus on the more important news:

"Republicans may fall short of keeping unwanted voters unregistered this year - democracy might be the disastrous outcome".

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

I'm the wrong person to be pointing fingers at if McCain wins the election. You can't win an election without votes so let's stop pretending these people don't exist.

People are allowing themselves to be scared into choosing sides. Don't vote for this guy, he has a weird middle name. Don't vote for that guy, his VP is an idiot. The solution is simple. Give everyone what they want by refusing to vote for either one.

I swear, I must be one of the only people in this country with any balls because I've had enough and I just don't give a damn who wins anymore. The last four years have sucked. The four years before that sucked. In fact, I can't remember a time when it didn't suck so if the next four years aren't any different at least I won't be surprised.

From this point forward my vote will go by default to a third party. Not just this election but every election until I'm pushing up daisies. I will demonstrate the one quality that both your mainstream candidates lack, principle. I want a president who not only swears the oath but believes it. If the country crumbles under the weight of it's own ignorance, so be it.

nice try goliath.

if ACORN is such an upstanding organization with only the purest motives, then why are they being investigated by a dozen states right now? why have there been indictments & convictions?

Wall St. Journal
November 3, 2006

A union-backed outfit faces charges of election fraud.

So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?

We wish this were an aberration, but allegations of fraud have tainted Acorn voter drives across the country. Acorn workers have been convicted in Wisconsin and Colorado, and investigations are still under way in Ohio, Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

The good news for anyone who cares about voter integrity is that the Justice Department finally seems poised to connect these dots instead of dismissing such revelations as the work of a few yahoos. After the federal indictments were handed up in Kansas City this week, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement that "This national investigation is very much ongoing."

Let's hope so. Acorn officials bill themselves as nonpartisan community organizers merely interested in giving a voice to minorities and the poor. In reality, Acorn is a union-backed, multimillion-dollar outfit that uses intimidation and other tactics to push for higher minimum wage mandates and to trash Wal-Mart and other non-union companies.

Seattle Times
October 30, 2007

Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme

Three of seven defendants in the biggest voter-registration fraud scheme in Washington history have pleaded guilty and one has been sentenced, prosecutors said Monday.

The defendants were all temporary employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, when they allegedly filled out and submitted more than 1,800 fictitious voter-registration cards during a 2006 registration drive in King and Pierce counties.

No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters. Prosecutors said the defendants committed fraud in order to keep their jobs without actually registering voters.

King County election workers brought the fraud to the attention of prosecutors last October, after noticing that signatures on many registration forms looked like they had been written by the same person.

Ryan Olson, 28, of Needles, Calif., was the first to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty Thursday in King County Superior Court to two counts of providing false information on a voter-registration application, a felony. Court Commissioner Kenneth Comstock sentenced him to 30 days in jail or in electronic home detention, the sentence recommended by prosecutors, said Dan Donohoe, spokesman for the King County Prosecutor's Office.

Tina Johnson, 24, of Tacoma, and Jayson Woods, 20, of Elkridge, Md., also have pleaded guilty to eight counts each of registration fraud. Donohoe said prosecutors have recommended 120 days of jail for each of them using the same formula applied to Olson: 15 days for each count.

Brianna Debwa, 35, of Tacoma; Robert Greene, 56, of Tacoma; and Clifton Mitchell, 45, of Lakewood, Pierce County, have pleaded not guilty and are scheduled to appear in court in November. Kendra Thill, 19, no known address, was charged with voter fraud and is wanted for failure to appear in court.

goliath, it is fraud and against the law for ACORN members to forge signatures and register people like Mickey Mouse. ACORN willing damages the integrity of our election system. this is something i would think you would take extremely seriously.

ACORN Ohio openly admits that they go door to door and encourage people to vote for obama. are you ok with this as well?

these are not isolated incidents as ACORN wants you to believe. this happens all over the country durring each election cycle.

how can you defend this organization? can you not call obama's judgment into question as well?

rich_is_bored, you should vote for Obama because he is very pro science. here is the proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBTpZ650l4w

i think he's only pretending to be religious because it's political suicide in the USA to announce that you are atheist because there it's a democracy which means the uneducated masses, which are the majority, have an equal vote to everyone else.

pbmax, I'm the one that said (in all caps and italics, even) that voter registration fraud was an EVERY DAY OCCURRENCE. There are systems in place to handle these problems. Your OWN article proves that:

"No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters."

So, yes... it's wrong that people were trying to make a quick buck and not put in the work to register new voters. Yes, it's wrong that they forged voter registrations. Yes, it's a shame that so many of these fraudulent registrations came out of ACORN. However, the people hired for these voter registration drives by ACORN are usually temporary workers (since the job only lasts a short while and only during election years), the offenders, once caught, are fired, and, as mentioned above, ACORN has a system in place to flag fraudulent registrations AND the organization attempts to contact each person listed on the registration form by phone. These forms are REQUIRED BY LAW to be submitted even though they're obviously bogus.

Again, several of the very links you posted actually mention things like: ACORN properly brought these fraudulent registrations to the attention of officials. In the case of Nevada, for example, warnings FROM ACORN TO officials were sent out MONTHS ago but Nevada officials ignored them and were too stupid to read the cover sheets flagging registrations as bogus AND ignored the "46 'problem application packages,' which involved 33 former canvassers" sent to them by ACORN months previously and again when later requested.

There's no whistle blowing here... just clueless people (ahem, like you, ahem) trying desperately to make a common occurrence with built-in checks and balances seem like it's a fresh and sinister plot hatched by "Democrats."

By the way... why is everyone assuming this is somehow the fault of the "Democrats?" Is it because we assume that low-income/temp jobs = black people = ppl more likely going to vote democrat on Nov 4?

I find it hilarious how no one has bothered to wonder just how many of these bogus registrations were submitted by poor, white republicans, who are just as likely to need to make a buck and just as likely to be lazy or unwilling to do the work to get real registrations. Or maybe it was some wealthy white, lazy teenagers...? Instead, the media makes a tacit, racist assumption that the submissions were made by poor black folks who are more likely to vote democratic. That's a HUGE assumption. That's HUGELY racist, too. But no one has the balls to point that out, I guess.

goliathvt wrote:

Instead, the media makes a tacit, racist assumption that the submissions were made by poor black folks who are more likely to vote democratic. That's a HUGE assumption. That's HUGELY racist, too. But no one has the balls to point that out, I guess.

why don't you ask ACORN why they only concentrate in inner city areas? ACORN is a far leftist group and inner cities vote democratic. its not a blind assumption nor is it racist. go look at a red/blue county map from the last election. its true.

why look here, a perfect example. let us listen to this nice young lady who was pestered over and over to register again and again and again by ACORN members which get paid by the number of registrations they turn in:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html ... =undefined

this poor woman's right to vote was almost taken away by the election board due to multiple registrations. ACORN is blowing up the Ohio election, and the integrity of Ohio's election is in major jeopardy. this is a HUGE problem taking place in other states as well.

but according to goliath, there nothing to see here. ACORN runs a tight ship and can't possibly be responsible for stray fraudulent registrations that sneek thru the cracks.

Okay, so it sounds like ACORN needs to do a better job hiring ppl who are not pushy and should bring up harassment charges against employees that tried to bully people into giving out their information.

The point that I've been trying to make, though, is that these phony registrations HAVE BEEN CAUGHT AND DISMISSED, in part, thanks to the attention that ACORN takes to flag them.

And, most importantly, the problem I have with this story are people like you, CNN, FoxNews, and others who are too stupid to separate VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD from VOTER FRAUD.

None of these fraudulent registrations will count as a single extra vote for either party on election day. REGISTRATIONS DO NOT EQUAL VOTES. You still have to show up, in person, with a valid drivers' license or ID to be able to cast your vote.

Nothing to see here other than some bullying ACORN temps that should be fired or sanctioned. Move along please.

Oh, and as for the donations to ACORN, maybe you are unaware, but ACORN does a lot more work in low-income communities than just voter registration drives that is deserving of donations and assistance. Things like community centers, housing projects, banking and investment education to low-income families, etc. You know, REAL low-income families that are barely scraping by, not your fantasy-land "people with 3 cars, 2 xboxes and DVD players in every room" type of poor people that you've mentioned elsewhere on these forums.

rich_is_bored wrote:

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

I'm the wrong person to be pointing fingers at if McCain wins the election. You can't win an election without votes so let's stop pretending these people don't exist.

People are allowing themselves to be scared into choosing sides. Don't vote for this guy, he has a weird middle name. Don't vote for that guy, his VP is an idiot. The solution is simple. Give everyone what they want by refusing to vote for either one.

I swear, I must be one of the only people in this country with any balls because I've had enough and I just don't give a damn who wins anymore. The last four years have sucked. The four years before that sucked. In fact, I can't remember a time when it didn't suck so if the next four years aren't any different at least I won't be surprised.

From this point forward my vote will go by default to a third party. Not just this election but every election until I'm pushing up daisies. I will demonstrate the one quality that both your mainstream candidates lack, principle. I want a president who not only swears the oath but believes it. If the country crumbles under the weight of it's own ignorance, so be it.

+11111111

The reason why they are mainstream is because they lie so much, or over exadurate everything just so the people can hear what they want to hear, things that happen in a dream...not reality. But all the people who HAVE A PLAN are ignored because their plans are too realistic.

It's pretty much like this: I will give you a chocolate house. I will give you a chocolate bar. What kind of kid would turn down the chocolate house?

Turns out the chocolate house was a minature chocolate house and is just about the same amount of chocolate the chocolate bar had.

goliathvt wrote:

VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD from VOTER FRAUD.

one, Ohio has early voting. two, its the first step needed in order for people to vote multiple times.

here's a guy that did VOTE early in Ohio and had it tossed out:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/ne ... 133540.htm

ViPr wrote:

rich_is_bored, you should vote for Obama because he is very pro science.

You miss the point. I don't care what Obama thinks about science or what his religious affiliation is. He's not principled. He opposes the "status quo" but votes in favor of FISA. He says he's going to withdrawl troops from Iraq but it's a half-truth because he doesn't plan on relinquishing control of our bases. But nobody talks about this because they're too busy talking about how stupid Palin is or ACORN.

pbmax wrote:

why don't you ask ACORN why they only concentrate in inner city areas?

If I were running such an organization, I think it might be more cost effective to focus on the most densely populated areas with the lowest number of registered voters. If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

You could argue against that but you're sort of wasting your breath because if any of you really gave a shit you could be out right now volunteering your services to register voters on your own terms. The question is why haven't you?

Is it possible that making a big stink is the objective of this discussion? Maybe if you can manifest enough dissent you can contest the election, purge votes and get a recount. Oh what fun! I feel like saluting the flag and singing the star spangled banner.

rich_is_bored wrote:

If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

you know its not a coincidence. how can we even have a discussion if we are not intellectually honest?

pbmax wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

you know its not a coincidence. how can we even have a discussion if we are not intellectually honest?

You claim they got moved there?

The FBI is now investiging ACORN...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_ ... raud_fbi_1

It's just a new generalization to complain about. "Terrorism" didn't work out so well after the bogus allegations were deconstructed, so neocons are back to the proved & true communism/socialism label. That, and trying to split the nation in half in the process as a bonus. Joseph McCarthy would be so proud.

Fuck John McCain

http://www.fuckobama.com

That just redirects me to Barack Obama T Shirts, Stickers & Obama For President merchandise.

Hemebond wrote:

That just redirects me to Barack Obama T Shirts, Stickers & Obama For President merchandise.

I just wanted to add an issue balancing domain - no one should say D3W bullies it's members in either direction.

Um... there's actually quite a bit of info about McCain at the link I posted. That was my reason for posting it, not the domain name.

Hemebond wrote:

Um... there's actually quite a bit of info about McCain at the link I posted. That was my reason for posting it, not the domain name.

The information and the domain name are sort of related in terms of the direction they point.

Back on topic:

ACORN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNgMKPV ... re=channel

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... rss&feed=2

"A former staffer for an affiliate of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now testified today that the organization was provided a "donor list" from the presidential campaign of Barack Obama in late 2007 for fundraising efforts.

Anita Moncrief, a former Washington, D.C. staffer for Project Vote, which she described as a sister organization of ACORN, said her supervisor told her the list of campaign contributors came from the Obama campaign. Moncrief said she has a copy of a "development plan" that outlines how Obama contributors who had "maxed out" under federal contribution limits would be targeted to give to Project Vote, and that it was her job to identify such contributors.

Moncrief testified that ACORN and Project Vote were virtually identical."

Project Vote is supposed to be a nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501(c)(3) organization under federal law. Yet, this development plan came directly from Obama's campaign as a way to skirt election donation laws.

Now why would Obama's campaign give a nonpartisan 501c3 organization an Obama donor list? Because Project Vote and ACORN are in the tank for Obama, and Obama has a long long history with both leftist groups.

Folks, how much more of this can you take before you admit ACORN & Project Vote exist for the sole purpose of getting liberal democrats elected? Not to mention the fraudulent business practices...

pbmax wrote:

Not to mention the fraudulent business practices...

...of Haliburton and BlackWater.

Unless ACORN is paying Obama's campaign expenses I don't see how directing maxed out campaign donors to a separate charitable cause is skirting funds.

Come on. There are 5 days left until the election. Is this your ace in the hole?

Where's the smoking gun? This Nancy Drew super sleuth crap isn't going to stick. You need to dig up some dirt of the "it puts the lotion on it's skin" variety.

CNN on ACORN's fraudulent attempts to register democrat voters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUKOSnv2zY

CNN again on ACORN shady voter drives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f4FMwitLak

USA Today on ACORN in Las Vegas registering the Dallas Cowboys:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/20 ... tml?csp=34

CNN on how the Democrats earmarked millions of dollars for ACRON in the bailout bill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BngyucCCAtc

FoxNews report that exapands on the Obama/ACORN connection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pgvp-hZjI

Wall St. Journal on Obama's ties to ACORN's voter registration tactics:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1209431 ... mmentaries

Wall St. Journal on ACORN & Obama:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html

Investors Business Daily on the ACORN & Obama connection:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edit ... 0381199062

Report on Obama's campaign sneaking $800,000 to ACORN:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 84284.html

ACORN Ohio openly admits it encourages voters to vote for Barack Obama:
http://www.ohiodailyblog.com/content/oh ... help-obama

FACT:
-In 1992, Obama led "Project VOTE", a Chicago voter registration drive in partnership with ACORN.
-In 1995, Obama and a team of Chicago attorneys won a 1995 suit on behalf of ACORN forcing the state of Illinois to implement the federal “motor-voter” bill.
-Chicago ACORN members worked for Obama's initial 1996 State Senate campaign and his failed 2000 Congress campaign.
-While a board member of Woods Fund & Joyce Foundation, Obama directed hundreds of thousands of dollars in grant money to ACORN.
-Obama's campaign recently gave ACORN $800,000.

Obama knows all about ACORN and their fraudulent tactics and yet he still supports them. And its no surprise that ACORN has endorsed Obama for President. In another close election, a few thousand fraudulant votes in a tight state could make all the difference.

The Democrats tried to earmark millions for ACORN in the bailbill with full knowledge of their shady tactics. The US government allready partially funds this leftist crooked group. This is completely sickening!

So why would I want to vote for a man with such poor judgement and dealings with a partisan, corrupt and fraudulent group like ACORN?

McCain sitting with ACORN at an ACORN co-sponsered event:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... ml?showall

To Quote the article

Quote:

Bertha Lewis, Acorn's chief organizer, said in a statement that came with the photo, “It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans."

Yeah, that was an immigration event, and McCain should not have been there. But that's McCain for you.

But his appearance at an ACORN immigration event is not in the same ballpark as Obama's inside involvment with and financial support of ACORN.

Calm down buddy. You're letting the media rile you up over something that will have no impact on the election.

Let's review. You've got a large number of inadmissible voter registrations being turned in on behalf of ACORN. Keep in mind we aren't talking about ballots but rather voter registration forms. What that means is that if there's any fraud taking place it's registration fraud and not voter fraud.

Fact: The word registration is 12 characters long.
Fact: The word voter is 5 characters long.
Fact: The word voter takes up less real estate on your TV (source: CNN).

Now here's the important part. The reason this story exists is because registration forms are screened before they are entered into the system. Case in point, these registrations have been found inadmissible. Real or otherwise these applicants will not be able to vote.

As far as ACORN and Obama's association, I think you need to re-examine the principles to which you hold people accountable. It seems to me like a double standard. Case in point, the entire chain of command is responsible for the torture in Abu Ghraib and Bush should be impeached. Guilt by association right? Anything less and you're being a hypocrite.

But hey no sweat off my balls. I'm voting third party. You can too.

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

Hey - it's a democracy! If the US wants to live in the scientific stone-age of creationism then let them do as they desire. And they only influence the world, but they don't rule the world.

Let's also point out that it was ACORN who properly submitted their registrations and flagged them as phony upon submission. It's required BY LAW for ACORN to submit every single registration, even the obviously fake ones. They can't do any weeding out, but they can split them into categories and say, "Hey, you might want to double-check these obviously silly ones." ACORN even attaches a bright cover sheet to the obviously bogus ones so there's no chance of them slipping through unnoticed.

There was no law breaking here. There was no sinister plot to register Mickey Mouse here and then have him vote for Obama. Instead, you have an organization dutifully following the law and even going beyond it by calling the people on the forms for confirmation, and flagging the bogus ones "just in case," then properly reporting all of them.

Separately, you have Nevada employing a bunch of morons that actually managed to ignore the cover sheets and so it was their mistake and blunder that mixed obviously phony registrations in with potentially good ones. ACORN did their job. Nevada state employees didn't do theirs.

What this did, though, is give John McCain who has been floundering for some kind of boogyman story a chance for he and his campaign to try to scare the public and confuse an EVERY DAY OCCURRENCE of any "voter registration" silliness (this is not the first time someone has tried to register Mickey Mouse, people!) with "voter fraud." The only difference between previous years and now is that the volume of fraudulent registrations are higher than normal. Still, there are obviously systems in place to catch the phony ones. And, ACORN also FIRES anyone that is shown to turn in fraudulent voter registrations.

Most importantly, though, is the need to note that voter REGISTRATION is very different from voter FRAUD.

Apparently CNN, FoxNews, and many other news outlets are too stupid to get it straight. I watched FoxNews last night and they said "voter registration" maybe half the number of times they said "voter fraud." And, the entire night, they had next to their "Alert" text the words, "Voter fraud?" in the right-hand corner. That's sensational journalism at its worst.

The headline of all of those stories pbmax posted "should" read something more like:

Obama supports Company that Follows Law and Properly Flags Phony Voter Registrations

What I found hilarious was that, for example in the CNN story, they made no mention of how ACORN flags phony registrations. I guess the morons at the Lake County Indiana voter registration office are as dumb as their Nevada counterparts and are too stupid to read the coversheets that said, "Hey these are probably fakes."

This is a non-story and a non-issue. And for someone who doesn't "like McCain," you're sure doing a great job of slinging the same bullshit he and his campaign are peddling, pbmax!

Now, please go respond to my post about why Americans should be okay with a VP pick who has been shown to have BROKEN THE LAW and then LIED ABOUT IT.

Thanks!

goliathvt wrote:

Now, please go respond to my post about why Americans should be okay with a VP pick who has been shown to have BROKEN THE LAW and then LIED ABOUT IT.

She's a hockey mum, so give her a break, she probably even didn't know she broke the law since she's not aware of laws and if she lied it's been a white lie at worst. Let's focus on the more important news:

"Republicans may fall short of keeping unwanted voters unregistered this year - democracy might be the disastrous outcome".

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

I'm the wrong person to be pointing fingers at if McCain wins the election. You can't win an election without votes so let's stop pretending these people don't exist.

People are allowing themselves to be scared into choosing sides. Don't vote for this guy, he has a weird middle name. Don't vote for that guy, his VP is an idiot. The solution is simple. Give everyone what they want by refusing to vote for either one.

I swear, I must be one of the only people in this country with any balls because I've had enough and I just don't give a damn who wins anymore. The last four years have sucked. The four years before that sucked. In fact, I can't remember a time when it didn't suck so if the next four years aren't any different at least I won't be surprised.

From this point forward my vote will go by default to a third party. Not just this election but every election until I'm pushing up daisies. I will demonstrate the one quality that both your mainstream candidates lack, principle. I want a president who not only swears the oath but believes it. If the country crumbles under the weight of it's own ignorance, so be it.

nice try goliath.

if ACORN is such an upstanding organization with only the purest motives, then why are they being investigated by a dozen states right now? why have there been indictments & convictions?

Wall St. Journal
November 3, 2006

A union-backed outfit faces charges of election fraud.

So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?

We wish this were an aberration, but allegations of fraud have tainted Acorn voter drives across the country. Acorn workers have been convicted in Wisconsin and Colorado, and investigations are still under way in Ohio, Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

The good news for anyone who cares about voter integrity is that the Justice Department finally seems poised to connect these dots instead of dismissing such revelations as the work of a few yahoos. After the federal indictments were handed up in Kansas City this week, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement that "This national investigation is very much ongoing."

Let's hope so. Acorn officials bill themselves as nonpartisan community organizers merely interested in giving a voice to minorities and the poor. In reality, Acorn is a union-backed, multimillion-dollar outfit that uses intimidation and other tactics to push for higher minimum wage mandates and to trash Wal-Mart and other non-union companies.

Seattle Times
October 30, 2007

Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme

Three of seven defendants in the biggest voter-registration fraud scheme in Washington history have pleaded guilty and one has been sentenced, prosecutors said Monday.

The defendants were all temporary employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, when they allegedly filled out and submitted more than 1,800 fictitious voter-registration cards during a 2006 registration drive in King and Pierce counties.

No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters. Prosecutors said the defendants committed fraud in order to keep their jobs without actually registering voters.

King County election workers brought the fraud to the attention of prosecutors last October, after noticing that signatures on many registration forms looked like they had been written by the same person.

Ryan Olson, 28, of Needles, Calif., was the first to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty Thursday in King County Superior Court to two counts of providing false information on a voter-registration application, a felony. Court Commissioner Kenneth Comstock sentenced him to 30 days in jail or in electronic home detention, the sentence recommended by prosecutors, said Dan Donohoe, spokesman for the King County Prosecutor's Office.

Tina Johnson, 24, of Tacoma, and Jayson Woods, 20, of Elkridge, Md., also have pleaded guilty to eight counts each of registration fraud. Donohoe said prosecutors have recommended 120 days of jail for each of them using the same formula applied to Olson: 15 days for each count.

Brianna Debwa, 35, of Tacoma; Robert Greene, 56, of Tacoma; and Clifton Mitchell, 45, of Lakewood, Pierce County, have pleaded not guilty and are scheduled to appear in court in November. Kendra Thill, 19, no known address, was charged with voter fraud and is wanted for failure to appear in court.

goliath, it is fraud and against the law for ACORN members to forge signatures and register people like Mickey Mouse. ACORN willing damages the integrity of our election system. this is something i would think you would take extremely seriously.

ACORN Ohio openly admits that they go door to door and encourage people to vote for obama. are you ok with this as well?

these are not isolated incidents as ACORN wants you to believe. this happens all over the country durring each election cycle.

how can you defend this organization? can you not call obama's judgment into question as well?

rich_is_bored, you should vote for Obama because he is very pro science. here is the proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBTpZ650l4w

i think he's only pretending to be religious because it's political suicide in the USA to announce that you are atheist because there it's a democracy which means the uneducated masses, which are the majority, have an equal vote to everyone else.

pbmax, I'm the one that said (in all caps and italics, even) that voter registration fraud was an EVERY DAY OCCURRENCE. There are systems in place to handle these problems. Your OWN article proves that:

"No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters."

So, yes... it's wrong that people were trying to make a quick buck and not put in the work to register new voters. Yes, it's wrong that they forged voter registrations. Yes, it's a shame that so many of these fraudulent registrations came out of ACORN. However, the people hired for these voter registration drives by ACORN are usually temporary workers (since the job only lasts a short while and only during election years), the offenders, once caught, are fired, and, as mentioned above, ACORN has a system in place to flag fraudulent registrations AND the organization attempts to contact each person listed on the registration form by phone. These forms are REQUIRED BY LAW to be submitted even though they're obviously bogus.

Again, several of the very links you posted actually mention things like: ACORN properly brought these fraudulent registrations to the attention of officials. In the case of Nevada, for example, warnings FROM ACORN TO officials were sent out MONTHS ago but Nevada officials ignored them and were too stupid to read the cover sheets flagging registrations as bogus AND ignored the "46 'problem application packages,' which involved 33 former canvassers" sent to them by ACORN months previously and again when later requested.

There's no whistle blowing here... just clueless people (ahem, like you, ahem) trying desperately to make a common occurrence with built-in checks and balances seem like it's a fresh and sinister plot hatched by "Democrats."

By the way... why is everyone assuming this is somehow the fault of the "Democrats?" Is it because we assume that low-income/temp jobs = black people = ppl more likely going to vote democrat on Nov 4?

I find it hilarious how no one has bothered to wonder just how many of these bogus registrations were submitted by poor, white republicans, who are just as likely to need to make a buck and just as likely to be lazy or unwilling to do the work to get real registrations. Or maybe it was some wealthy white, lazy teenagers...? Instead, the media makes a tacit, racist assumption that the submissions were made by poor black folks who are more likely to vote democratic. That's a HUGE assumption. That's HUGELY racist, too. But no one has the balls to point that out, I guess.

goliathvt wrote:

Instead, the media makes a tacit, racist assumption that the submissions were made by poor black folks who are more likely to vote democratic. That's a HUGE assumption. That's HUGELY racist, too. But no one has the balls to point that out, I guess.

why don't you ask ACORN why they only concentrate in inner city areas? ACORN is a far leftist group and inner cities vote democratic. its not a blind assumption nor is it racist. go look at a red/blue county map from the last election. its true.

why look here, a perfect example. let us listen to this nice young lady who was pestered over and over to register again and again and again by ACORN members which get paid by the number of registrations they turn in:
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html ... =undefined

this poor woman's right to vote was almost taken away by the election board due to multiple registrations. ACORN is blowing up the Ohio election, and the integrity of Ohio's election is in major jeopardy. this is a HUGE problem taking place in other states as well.

but according to goliath, there nothing to see here. ACORN runs a tight ship and can't possibly be responsible for stray fraudulent registrations that sneek thru the cracks.

Okay, so it sounds like ACORN needs to do a better job hiring ppl who are not pushy and should bring up harassment charges against employees that tried to bully people into giving out their information.

The point that I've been trying to make, though, is that these phony registrations HAVE BEEN CAUGHT AND DISMISSED, in part, thanks to the attention that ACORN takes to flag them.

And, most importantly, the problem I have with this story are people like you, CNN, FoxNews, and others who are too stupid to separate VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD from VOTER FRAUD.

None of these fraudulent registrations will count as a single extra vote for either party on election day. REGISTRATIONS DO NOT EQUAL VOTES. You still have to show up, in person, with a valid drivers' license or ID to be able to cast your vote.

Nothing to see here other than some bullying ACORN temps that should be fired or sanctioned. Move along please.

Oh, and as for the donations to ACORN, maybe you are unaware, but ACORN does a lot more work in low-income communities than just voter registration drives that is deserving of donations and assistance. Things like community centers, housing projects, banking and investment education to low-income families, etc. You know, REAL low-income families that are barely scraping by, not your fantasy-land "people with 3 cars, 2 xboxes and DVD players in every room" type of poor people that you've mentioned elsewhere on these forums.

rich_is_bored wrote:

ViPr wrote:

yeah vote third party so Obama loses and then the world gets to spend some more years being ruled by people who apparently seem to think science and technology are the work of the devil.

I'm the wrong person to be pointing fingers at if McCain wins the election. You can't win an election without votes so let's stop pretending these people don't exist.

People are allowing themselves to be scared into choosing sides. Don't vote for this guy, he has a weird middle name. Don't vote for that guy, his VP is an idiot. The solution is simple. Give everyone what they want by refusing to vote for either one.

I swear, I must be one of the only people in this country with any balls because I've had enough and I just don't give a damn who wins anymore. The last four years have sucked. The four years before that sucked. In fact, I can't remember a time when it didn't suck so if the next four years aren't any different at least I won't be surprised.

From this point forward my vote will go by default to a third party. Not just this election but every election until I'm pushing up daisies. I will demonstrate the one quality that both your mainstream candidates lack, principle. I want a president who not only swears the oath but believes it. If the country crumbles under the weight of it's own ignorance, so be it.

+11111111

The reason why they are mainstream is because they lie so much, or over exadurate everything just so the people can hear what they want to hear, things that happen in a dream...not reality. But all the people who HAVE A PLAN are ignored because their plans are too realistic.

It's pretty much like this: I will give you a chocolate house. I will give you a chocolate bar. What kind of kid would turn down the chocolate house?

Turns out the chocolate house was a minature chocolate house and is just about the same amount of chocolate the chocolate bar had.

goliathvt wrote:

VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD from VOTER FRAUD.

one, Ohio has early voting. two, its the first step needed in order for people to vote multiple times.

here's a guy that did VOTE early in Ohio and had it tossed out:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/ne ... 133540.htm

ViPr wrote:

rich_is_bored, you should vote for Obama because he is very pro science.

You miss the point. I don't care what Obama thinks about science or what his religious affiliation is. He's not principled. He opposes the "status quo" but votes in favor of FISA. He says he's going to withdrawl troops from Iraq but it's a half-truth because he doesn't plan on relinquishing control of our bases. But nobody talks about this because they're too busy talking about how stupid Palin is or ACORN.

pbmax wrote:

why don't you ask ACORN why they only concentrate in inner city areas?

If I were running such an organization, I think it might be more cost effective to focus on the most densely populated areas with the lowest number of registered voters. If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

You could argue against that but you're sort of wasting your breath because if any of you really gave a shit you could be out right now volunteering your services to register voters on your own terms. The question is why haven't you?

Is it possible that making a big stink is the objective of this discussion? Maybe if you can manifest enough dissent you can contest the election, purge votes and get a recount. Oh what fun! I feel like saluting the flag and singing the star spangled banner.

rich_is_bored wrote:

If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

you know its not a coincidence. how can we even have a discussion if we are not intellectually honest?

pbmax wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

you know its not a coincidence. how can we even have a discussion if we are not intellectually honest?

You claim they got moved there?

The FBI is now investiging ACORN...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_ ... raud_fbi_1

pbmax wrote:

The FBI is now investiging ACORN...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_ ... raud_fbi_1

Phantastic, but still - you claim the people got moved there by ACRON?

To clear up your 'Fact':

Quote:

-Obama's campaign recently gave ACORN $800,000.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... more-24908

Obama's ties to ACORN are clearer marked what has happened.

His only Legal ties:

Quote:

he "was one of the attorneys there who successfully represented a coalition of groups including ACORN in a legal case that won better enforcement of the National Voter Registration Act in Illinois."

His volunteer work of 2 speeches at ACORN events(which McCain has also done):

Quote:

it does mention other ties. Obama "accepted two invitations to be an unpaid guest speaker at training for volunteer community leaders organized by Chicago ACORN." That was in the early 1990s.

And his $800,000 that "he gave ACORN":

Quote:

Additionally, the Obama campaign paid a political consulting group called Citizens' Services' Inc. more than $800,000 early this year for vote canvassing, such as knocking on doors and urging people to vote. The group in turn subcontracted a "small amount" of those funds to ACORN "for recruitment and training of canvassers," ACORN said. Obama campaign advisers stressed in an Oct. 14 teleconference that the campaign paid Citizens' Services Inc. for canvassing, but not voter registration.

The group he paid the money to was only to encourage people to register door to door. That group went to ACORN seperately and subcontracted in help of doing that.

You mean it's not that much of a scandal as people want to make us believe? Did we, again and again and again, get misled by carefully formulated posted "facts"?

Quote:

The FBI is now investiging ACORN

phantastic. indeed.

lol.

Oh pbmax, you're almost cute when you post "facts" and call for people to maintain "intellectual honesty."

Have we beaten this non-issue topic into submission with enough reality yet?

Intellectual dishonesty is telling yourself that correlation is causation. ACORN's focus on densly populated areas does not prove an intentional political bias. It's suggestive but not indicative. It's a motive but not evidence.

BNA! wrote:

You mean it's not that much of a scandal as people want to make us believe? Did we, again and again and again, get misled by carefully formulated posted "facts"?

For my untrained eyes, the Rovian Republican party strategy is quite simple:

1. Find something slightly suspicious that's either complicated to properly understand, or prone to get taken out of context, or both
2. Distort common knowledge and omit facts to make it sound like the situation is much worse than it actually is
3. Use whatever leaps of logic possibly imaginable to link it to "that one" candidate
4. Talk about it on an ad, and never at a debate where it can be easily debunked
5. Ignore people calling on your lies and half-truths
6. Gather votes
7. Profit!

Then apply that to whatever McCain campaign (or his supporters) have claimed recently about Obama. From flag pins to hands over chest to Ayres to Acorn to Muslim ancestry.

But too bad that approach is getting old. People can do fact checks so easily now that coming up with inane suspicions only serves to convince people who already had a disposition for ignoring facts and rationality - and most of those are already in McCain's straight attack express.

pbmax:You say you're not a republican

Really? Do you do impressions coz every time you post, you do a terrific impersonation of a bible bashing white trash war loving republican hick. :mrgreen:

If everyone in the US voted, the republicans would never win because most non-voters would vote democrat. Not that everyone should vote. It's a privilege, not a duty. Besides, if they can't be bothered to vote then they shouldn't have a say in who wins. And it's definitely not a coincidence that people living in the city, and therefore have more human contact, have a broader view and don't like republican war mungering elitist/selfishness.

pbmax wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

If people in those areas happen to favor voting for democrats it's coincidental.

you know its not a coincidence. how can we even have a discussion if we are not intellectually honest?

wal wrote:

a lot

I think disagreement should not get taken on a personal level. Feel free to disagree and battle the discussion with facts and / or good thoughts, something you have proven to be able to in other threads.
But please don't go down the path of personal accusations.

I didn't think I was crossing the line there. White trash isn't really a personal term and I didn't think hick was an insult after hearing them refer to themselves as hicks. But then it might be like the nigro variation word. And I did use a smiley. I knew I shouldn't have posted that, should have listened to myself. My point remains valid even though I may have made it badly. I was going for a micky-taking tone rather than offensive. I think it's a cultural thing. You should here the way some of us Brits talk to each other, you'd think we were about to have a fight. It's just banter. I actually think of pbmax as a good but misguided person.

wal wrote:

You should here the way some of us Brits talk to each other, you'd think we were about to have a fight. It's just banter. I actually think of pbmax as a good but misguided person.

Yes, but this is not a tongue in cheek British face to face conversation. Discussing on the web has some limits we all have to live with. What you think of pbmax is secondary to me in this subcontext.
You're smart enough not to write cool.

Yea, I don't like the restrictions on the written word which is why I swear more, use bigger words and too many smileys. I wasn't saying people should write by my rules of conversation, I was just making an excuse and saying I wouldn't want to really offend someone I don't have a real problem with. Hopefully he didn't read the first one before I posted the others. I'm bored, I want to go home then out for a pint. What's ACORN?

wal wrote:

pbmax:You say you're not a republican

Really? Do you do impressions coz every time you post, you do a terrific impersonation of a bible bashing white trash war loving republican hick. :mrgreen:

i guess that's one of the problems with the two party system. i'm against obama, but that does that mean i have to be a republican? i can assure you that i'm not. the republican party is a joke.

you know, if we could all sit in a room together and discuss the issues long enough, we'd find that we all want pretty much the exact same things for our country. the problem is, how do we get there?

you can think of me as 1/3 libertarian, 1/3 constitutionalist & 1/3 conservatve. unfortunately, neither of the two major parties comes close to this.

pbmax wrote:

the problem is, how do we get there?

You get there fastest by disallowing people to put up smoke and mirrors like ACORN, ALASKA, DRILL BABY DRILL or JOE THE PLUMBER and focus on issues rather than on popularity.

The world is not the ultimate high school and presidents are neither quarterbacks nor cheer leaders.

We have the same set of politicians here in Germany, but thankfully people have grown very vary of politicians setting up the scene like Obama or McCain. Let's just say we had some bad experiences following a perfected choreography of crowds, flags, uniforms and like the US it was WW2 which led us out of the economic depression of the 1930s - albeit there was a price tag on it.

If I'm going to rant and vent when I've got the hump then I should really put in a bit of effort instead of throwing bricks across the pond aiming at the southern states and hoping to hit a right wing republican (yes I love metaphors). pbmax: I'm going to explain why I've been bitchy about your posts and it's probably going to sound very patronising.

If you were just talking issues or internal US politics then fair enough but you post things saying "this link to one of many pieces of meaningless shite says that pbmax is right and whoever-usually Obama is socialist/liberalist/leftist" as if they're automatically negative traits. If you think someone is too liberal and the vast majority of other people don't then don't you think you probably live a little bit too far to the right/south (I don't know where your united state is. I only found out recently that Alaska is in Canada). You seem to like using backward logic, as in starting with an assumption then working backwards ignoring what doesn't support it and what does if it's misinterpreted just right. And you do seem very much more anti-democrat than republican, more anti-Obama than McCain, more anti-socialism than capitalism, more anti-liberalism than elitism, a lot more right than left. Are you sure you're not a republican spy sent here to get every American you can to vote third party so the democrats loose because you know that republican supporters wont vote third party because no other party comes close to the we're better and have more nukes so we do what we like mentality that's really not appropriate for a country that laughingly and dangerously declared itself the leader of the world btw? Obama has also referred to the US as former world leaders but at least he recognises that if you could be considered as a leader in some way then it's only others look to you as some kind of example. If you like him or not, at least he gets it, while the republican candidates either don't or just know that lots of their supporters don't. McCain seems wounded and angry and Palin seems insane and clueless, and it's starting to drag out now. Vote already!

One of the main complaints of the right about the left is that it would penalise people who earn more and do well for themselves. This point of view only applies if you've already taken it as a given that the current system is fair in the first place.

wal wrote:

If you were just talking issues or internal US politics then fair enough but you post things saying "this link to one of many pieces of meaningless shite says that pbmax is right and whoever-usually Obama is socialist/liberalist/leftist" as if they're automatically negative traits.

you're right, i do think socialist/liberist/leftist are automatically negative traits. i could have a great time having a beer with obama, but i don't like his politics.

socialism is wrong and people that don't think so are either already in power, in denial or just ignorant.

what made America, only 230 some years old, the most wealthy, productive & powerful nation in the history of world? was it socialism? no, it was capitalism & freedom to pursue happiness. this cannot be argued.

pbmax wrote:

what made America, only 230 some years old, the most wealthy, productive & powerful nation in the history of world? was it socialism? no, it was capitalism & freedom to pursue happiness. this cannot be argued.

Yes it can. Wealth was a combination, but mostly false wealth through credit lately. Productive was because it was new and a lot needed to be done. Power was an obsession with war and weapons. And again with the backward logic. "Well we had success while using capitalism so that must be the reason".

pbmax wrote:

you're right, i do think socialist/liberist/leftist are automatically negative traits. i could have a great time having a beer with obama, but i don't like his politics.

socialism is wrong and people that don't think so are either already in power, in denial or just ignorant.

HUGE LOL
I think you've just proved yourself to be either so far to the right that you've lost all sense of reality, in denial or just ignorant.

pbmax wrote:

what made America, only 230 some years old, the most wealthy, productive & powerful nation in the history of world? was it socialism? no, it was capitalism & freedom to pursue happiness. this cannot be argued.

Actually, if you bothered to do any research, you would skip the Capitalism fairytale and actually study the economics of the last 200ish years within the U.S.

The short version is this:

Big companies and "cornerstone" industries got subsidy and bailout after subsidy and bailout. This has continued from early U.S. history right up until the present.

In other words, instead of capitalistic free-market forces dominating the economic climate, careful, government-controlled decisions were made in order to keep business afloat. On top of that, the periods of greatest growth and/or recovery after a crash happened when the U.S. nationalized or otherwise carefully regulated various sectors of the economy. Read up on the aftermath of the Great Depression for examples.

These are the reasons why I say things like, "Capitalism is a myth" or "free markets are a farce." Put simply, a long time ago, the planners figured out that if they let capitalism flourish unchecked, we would run our economy straight into the ground and have ever since used the tools of government to keep things in check and bail out companies when needed.

What this amounts to, then, is socialism and welfare for the rich while placing the burdens of this so-called capitalism onto the taxpayer.

The recent 850B-and-rising bailout is just one more undeniable, modern-day example of this not-so capitalist system in action.

So, no, maybe the fairytale in your head can't be argued, but in reality where the rest of us live, the idea that capitalism is some amazing self-sustaining institution or even a moderately functional system is most certainly up for debate.

If the American population would just get over that Democratic Socialism isn't even remotely synonymous with Communism. That would be great.

Kristus wrote:

If the American population would just get over that Democratic Socialism isn't even remotely synonymous with Communism. That would be great.

Give them another 20 something generations. Or alternatively - wait for 1,9 trillion USD sitting in Chinese sovereign wealth funds to make their way back to acquire US core industries. They will think differently then.

It's just a new generalization to complain about. "Terrorism" didn't work out so well after the bogus allegations were deconstructed, so neocons are back to the proved & true communism/socialism label. That, and trying to split the nation in half in the process as a bonus. Joseph McCarthy would be so proud.

Fuck John McCain

http://www.fuckobama.com

That just redirects me to Barack Obama T Shirts, Stickers & Obama For President merchandise.

Hemebond wrote:

That just redirects me to Barack Obama T Shirts, Stickers & Obama For President merchandise.

I just wanted to add an issue balancing domain - no one should say D3W bullies it's members in either direction.

Um... there's actually quite a bit of info about McCain at the link I posted. That was my reason for posting it, not the domain name.

Hemebond wrote:

Um... there's actually quite a bit of info about McCain at the link I posted. That was my reason for posting it, not the domain name.

The information and the domain name are sort of related in terms of the direction they point.

Back on topic:

ACORN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNgMKPV ... re=channel

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... rss&feed=2

"A former staffer for an affiliate of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now testified today that the organization was provided a "donor list" from the presidential campaign of Barack Obama in late 2007 for fundraising efforts.

Anita Moncrief, a former Washington, D.C. staffer for Project Vote, which she described as a sister organization of ACORN, said her supervisor told her the list of campaign contributors came from the Obama campaign. Moncrief said she has a copy of a "development plan" that outlines how Obama contributors who had "maxed out" under federal contribution limits would be targeted to give to Project Vote, and that it was her job to identify such contributors.

Moncrief testified that ACORN and Project Vote were virtually identical."

Project Vote is supposed to be a nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501(c)(3) organization under federal law. Yet, this development plan came directly from Obama's campaign as a way to skirt election donation laws.

Now why would Obama's campaign give a nonpartisan 501c3 organization an Obama donor list? Because Project Vote and ACORN are in the tank for Obama, and Obama has a long long history with both leftist groups.

Folks, how much more of this can you take before you admit ACORN & Project Vote exist for the sole purpose of getting liberal democrats elected? Not to mention the fraudulent business practices...

pbmax wrote:

Not to mention the fraudulent business practices...

...of Haliburton and BlackWater.

Unless ACORN is paying Obama's campaign expenses I don't see how directing maxed out campaign donors to a separate charitable cause is skirting funds.

Come on. There are 5 days left until the election. Is this your ace in the hole?

Where's the smoking gun? This Nancy Drew super sleuth crap isn't going to stick. You need to dig up some dirt of the "it puts the lotion on it's skin" variety.