Today the OCSE was denied access to all but 1 voting locale while observing if the voting is done orderly, democratically and honestly. The OCSE normally checks for anomalies during elections in any democratic country and was invited by the US government to observe the elections

What's interesting is that the 1 voting locale that they were able to enter was specifically chosen by the local government.
This is a pretty weird twists of events, considering the 2000 debacle.

Unfortunately I was not able to find an English source yet, but for those that lack trust: http://www.nu.nl/news/1822659/2030/Euro ... mmerd.html

I will be looking out for more information on this.

Quote:

Following an invitation to the OSCE/ODIHR, extended by the Ambassador of the United States of America to the OSCE, to observe the 4 November 2008 general elections, the OSCE/ODIHR deployed a limited election observation mission (LEOM) to the United States of America.

The OSCE/ODIHR conducted a needs assessment mission from 16 to 20 June 2008 in order to assess the conditions and preparations for the elections and to advise on the format and modalities of an election observation mission. The needs assessment mission recommended the deployment of a Limited Election Observation Mission (LEOM).

Long-term observation

The OSCE/ODIHR LEOM, headed by Ambassador Audrey Glover, began work on 10 October. The LEOM has a core team of 13 international experts at the head office in Washington DC, and 47 long-term observers deployed in teams of two around the country. The LEOM observers are drawn from 20 OSCE participating States.

As the US is a participating States of the OSCE, the LEOM will assess the upcoming elections in the context of the OSCE commitments and other international standards for democratic elections, as well as national legislation. The LEOM will focus mainly on federal legislation and its implementation, election reform issues, the election campaign and the media, electronic voting, access of observers, and other issues including voter registration, voter identification, and voting rights.

According to standard practice, an OSCE/ODIHR LEOM does not envisage comprehensive and systematic observation of election day procedures, although members of the OSCE/ODIHR LEOM will visit polling stations around the country on election day. The OSCE Parliamentary Assembly will deploy an observation mission to observe election day proceedings.

Previous elections

The OSCE/ODIHR has observed a number of elections in the United States of America. It undertook Election Assessment Missions (EAM) to follow the congressional mid-term elections in 2002, with a focus on the state of Florida, and in 2006. In 2004, the OSCE conducted an Election Observation Mission (EOM) of a targeted nature for the general elections.

I know this is a 'political' thread and I'm not really up for political threads (some have noticed me complaining about all the obama v.s. mcCain threads). But because this is not a 'mudsling' thread, I thought it merited a thread of it's own. The underlying idea of this thread is not so much a discussion of this current event, but more a discussion of wether it would be possible to forge the election in a country like America.

I'm sure there are many that would benefit from rigged elections, and to me it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

our voting "system" is scary. each state (and even each county!) has different voting methods. scanning machines, punch cards, electronic machines, photo id's required/not required, poor oversight, fraud, etc...

imo, we need some sort of standardization across the board and photo id's are a must. its a shame our country can't get its sh*t together. its a freakin' joke.

pbmax wrote:

our voting "system" is scary. each state (and even each county!) has different voting methods. scanning machines, punch cards, electronic machines, photo id's required/not required, poor oversight, fraud, etc...

imo, we need some sort of standardization across the board and photo id's are a must. its a shame our country can't get its sh*t together. its a freakin' joke.

I was pretty shocked when I heard Al Gore got -16,000 votes in one district back in the day where he lost by 500 votes. I really thought these issues did get ironed out over the last 8 years.

I think we can argue over everything, but a democracy should have zero flexibility to count and even worse, "interpret" votes. It's either 0 or 1, vote this or that.

here's a wall street journal article from today about voting fraud in my state (WI) from the 2004 election. its just sickening...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122576113489495571.html

why are democrats always pushing for more and more lax voting laws & regulations? hmmm, i wonder...

BNA! wrote:

I really thought these issues did get ironed out over the last 8 years.

i'm younger then you but I'm sure you know that the only thing that matters to most govt & general populations is the problem at hand, nothing else! Hence the voting issues were never fixed after '04, bridges/roads STILL don't have proper funding (the taxes collected for that aren't being used for that) even after the big bridge collapse a while ago (most of the politicians running now voted to REDUCE taxes to support road work), etc.

I'm glad you're interested in vote fraud... the real kind. Have you investigated the wealth of knowledge and information that came out after the 2000 and 2004 elections that indicate that vote fraud was carried out on a massive scale by the neo-cons? One of the reasons why Dems have (unfortunately and mistakenly) tried to make things "easier" for registration (registration not voting) is because neo-cons have actively and illegally purged valid voters from the rolls.

Quote:

Secretary of State Sandra Mortham paid a private company $5700 per annum to purge the voter registry of all ex-felons. Although Florida courts twice ruled that ex-felons whose civil rights had been restored before they came to Florida were entitled to vote, in 1999 newly-elected Secretary of State Katherine Harris and Director of the Division of Elections Clay Roberts ignored the courts and continued the drive to disenfranchise black Democratic voters, felons or not.

Harris hired Data Base Technologies (DBT, now a division of Choicepoint) and paid them $4.3 million to compile the most extensive scrub list possible. Race was a big factor in compiling matches for the list. Blacks make up less than 15% of Florida's population and 90% of them vote Democratic, so targeted blacks made up more than 50% of the ex-felon list. After the election, the vice-president of Choicepoint testified before a congressional committee that Florida state officials had ordered DBT to eliminate voters by making incorrect matches. Choicepoint gathered its information from the Internet and did not make a single verifying telephone call.

excerpt from "How American Elections Became a Criminal Enterprise" by Michelle Maireese

The latest estimates of legitimate voters from just Florida who were denied their right to vote in 2000? 90,000.

So now I'm sure you'll write back with some useless quip about "GET OVER IT YOU LOST!!!!" or something as amusing. However, if you truly believe in the Constitution and the greatness of this country, you would take an honest look at how REAL vote fraud. REAL disenfranchisement has been perpetrated over the last 10 years or so, and how the majority of it has been carried out by those who carry your party affiliation and/or ideology. You support liars, thieves and criminals.

That said... I want this to be an honest election. I want every rich, poor, gay, straight, white, black, brown, blue, red, purple and green man or woman to be able to vote because I know, in the end, when the books aren't cooked or scrubbed otherwise manipulated, the voices that are heard will not be the likes of Bush, Cheney, McCain or Palin.

Black Panthers, beat down sticks in hand, guard Philly polling location...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCeD1RcJjAg

BloodRayne wrote:

Today the OCSE was denied access to all but 1 voting locale while observing if the voting is done orderly, democratically and honestly. The OCSE normally checks for anomalies during elections in any democratic country and was invited by the US government to observe the elections

What's interesting is that the 1 voting locale that they were able to enter was specifically chosen by the local government.
This is a pretty weird twists of events, considering the 2000 debacle.

Unfortunately I was not able to find an English source yet, but for those that lack trust: http://www.nu.nl/news/1822659/2030/Euro ... mmerd.html

I will be looking out for more information on this.

Quote:

Following an invitation to the OSCE/ODIHR, extended by the Ambassador of the United States of America to the OSCE, to observe the 4 November 2008 general elections, the OSCE/ODIHR deployed a limited election observation mission (LEOM) to the United States of America.

The OSCE/ODIHR conducted a needs assessment mission from 16 to 20 June 2008 in order to assess the conditions and preparations for the elections and to advise on the format and modalities of an election observation mission. The needs assessment mission recommended the deployment of a Limited Election Observation Mission (LEOM).

Long-term observation

The OSCE/ODIHR LEOM, headed by Ambassador Audrey Glover, began work on 10 October. The LEOM has a core team of 13 international experts at the head office in Washington DC, and 47 long-term observers deployed in teams of two around the country. The LEOM observers are drawn from 20 OSCE participating States.

As the US is a participating States of the OSCE, the LEOM will assess the upcoming elections in the context of the OSCE commitments and other international standards for democratic elections, as well as national legislation. The LEOM will focus mainly on federal legislation and its implementation, election reform issues, the election campaign and the media, electronic voting, access of observers, and other issues including voter registration, voter identification, and voting rights.

According to standard practice, an OSCE/ODIHR LEOM does not envisage comprehensive and systematic observation of election day procedures, although members of the OSCE/ODIHR LEOM will visit polling stations around the country on election day. The OSCE Parliamentary Assembly will deploy an observation mission to observe election day proceedings.

Previous elections

The OSCE/ODIHR has observed a number of elections in the United States of America. It undertook Election Assessment Missions (EAM) to follow the congressional mid-term elections in 2002, with a focus on the state of Florida, and in 2006. In 2004, the OSCE conducted an Election Observation Mission (EOM) of a targeted nature for the general elections.

I know this is a 'political' thread and I'm not really up for political threads (some have noticed me complaining about all the obama v.s. mcCain threads). But because this is not a 'mudsling' thread, I thought it merited a thread of it's own. The underlying idea of this thread is not so much a discussion of this current event, but more a discussion of wether it would be possible to forge the election in a country like America.

I'm sure there are many that would benefit from rigged elections, and to me it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

Seeing as two independent journalist were able to prove fraud on the part of the republicans during the 2000 and 2004 election in Rolling Stone magazine about a year and a half back, in the very same state no less, I'd say shenanigans would be par for the course this year as well. The country would likely be in a very different place in regards to the 2000 election. Fairly certain you can find instances of it on both sides of the fence, the Clinton admin had several issues with Chinese pandering and Pakistani corruption during its reign, and pretty much nothing happened then either in regards to filing of charges or prosecution. It's simply how business is conducted in the modern environment.

pbmax wrote:

why are democrats always pushing for more and more lax voting laws & regulations? hmmm, i wonder...

To score more negative votes and loose elections by close margines to republicans?

It's fun to see how people who dug themselves into a deep hole delcare darkness the new light.

Less than 12 hours to go. Yipeeeeee! :lol:

goliathvt wrote:

You support liars, thieves and criminals.

I don't get it... you've obviously badmouthing republicans in most of the post but then you say he supports oboma & those like him, along with the ones you don't like?

rich_is_bored wrote:

Less than 12 hours to go. Yipeeeeee! :lol:

Is that the length of the line you're standing in?

I'm curious to see what newspapers will write about next week. Financial crisis easening, election done... Perhaps a focus on recession and deflation to keep us depressed for another 12 months...

Well, I'm glad this will be over soon (assuming we don't go into the months long recount cycle).

Hell no bro. I got up early as shit to avoid that.

Yeah, I got up at 5am to vote by 6pm. Lines were already longer than I've seen before but they moved fairly well.