BloodRayne@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 pm :
Epic's Cliff Blazinsky (sp?) told the press that DLC should be mandatory for the ending of games, to make sure they can also profit from second hand sales and rentals. Seems a clear cut case, to me, of trying to undermine everything that our free market economy stands for.

But hey, that's just me. :)

Quote:
The secondary market is a huge issue in the United States. Our primary retailer makes the majority of its money off of secondary sales, and so you’re starting to see games taking proactive steps toward that by… if you buy the retail version you get the unlock code.

I’ve talked to some developers who are saying ‘If you want to fight the final boss you go online and pay USD 20, but if you bought the retail version you got it for free’. We don’t make any money when someone rents it, and we don’t make any money when someone buys it used - way more than twice as many people played Gears than bought it.



iceheart@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:40 pm :
Remember when Nintendo tried to make selling their games second hand illegal? This is the same sort of ridiculous greed run amok.

It certainly won't help their (or second hand) sales one bit, since the pirated versions will always be complete in their entirety.

Maybe I should have to buy two copies of the game to play split-screen coop as well?



pbmax@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:43 pm :
some of these developers are crazy. they should realize that a thriving 2nd hand market actually helps them. a lot of people sell games they no longer play to buy new ones.

what makes the video game market different from any other? could you imagine if the auto makers decided that people could no longer buy used cars? WTF!?!?

they need to stop worring about squeezing every last penny out of their legit customers and focus on making quality games that people will want to buy. focusing on customer relations wouldn't hurt either.

its just mind blowing how developers are treating legit gamers these days... :x



zeh@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:13 pm :
He also said that Mirror's Edge doesn't have enough guns...

Quote:
I think Mirror's Edge will be great, too, but they're showing me too much parkour, I want to see the gunplay. I hope it's not all just running and jumping.


I like Cliff and Epic and all, but I think their Ivory Tower got so high in the past few years that they lost track of the little ants below.



Kristus@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:22 pm :
Cliffy B is a tool in my book. But I do wonder when the majority of the game design/publishing companies will learn that a happy customer == monies.



iceheart@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:35 pm :
http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/je ... intarview/
:lol:



Kamikazee@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:36 pm :
So, suppose you bought a cd. Is someone stopping you from using an unlocking tool?

Pirated versions would actually have a higher quality: they work straight out of the box.



aaa111@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:03 pm :
Mark Reign :lol:

Endgames should be DLC :roll:

That doesn't make any sense to me.



Deadite4@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:36 pm :
I don't know about anyone else here, but I also never even got into buying/trading in games until the last generation of games. I still have all my games from the NES/SNES days. Maybe they should focus on current games' replayability and overall goodness......unlike some of the crap they push out today. Maybe people will actually want to hold on to some of their games?



6th Venom@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 pm :
Totally true, since the games are so scripted (who said Doom3?) and poor in scenarios (wtf! ;} ), no more super doopa scores killers,
why shouldn't we resell our finished games to bring back some money to us?

Actually i got some games like UTIII in my chamber as trophies, but never replayed it since i bought & finished it, like many recent games.
If i'm so in mods, it's principaly because i love games, but also cause i don't got good new games to play. if devs can't make it, i'll do it! :D

Epic is now a big money machine, they will now learn that we're not money pigs, and that they have to make good games, and not only 'extra graphics but boring' sequels.



qwertz123@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:14 pm :
iceheart wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/jeffk/cliifyintarview/
:lol:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/cliff-yablonski/

nuff said.

@topic: so where is carmack?



The Happy Friar@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:57 am :
wait... so he's saying games should go back to shareware? You get the 1st part FREE & pay for the rest to know how the story ends??

being against renting/2nd hand is very stupid though: like he said, 1st one gets more people to buy the 2nd. Odds are people rented the first one & like it so much they bought the 2nd one. but his theory is stupid: make a good game & people WILL buy. Super Mario Bros is THE highest selling game, ever, period. First in a series, considered one of the best. People still buy it for Wii even though it's been out for decades & you can find it free on the net.



iceheart@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:10 am :
The Happy Friar wrote:
Super Mario Bros is THE highest selling game, ever, period.


Only because it was bundled with every NES sold. I'm aware that the NES sold very well in large part because people wanted to play Mario, but it's still an "unfair" statistic.

...Though Super Mario Bros 3 is the most selling single game ever that was never bundled with any console, at about 17m copies, barely edging out The Sims (original, no exps) at 16m.



stabinbac@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:18 am :
qwertz123 wrote:
@topic: so where is carmack?


Making games.

Games that sell on the PC.

(And badass vertical racing rockets.)



The Happy Friar@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:00 am :
iceheart wrote:
Only because it was bundled with every NES sold. I'm aware that the NES sold very well in large part because people wanted to play Mario, but it's still an "unfair" statistic.


Valve re-sells everything with each new package to artificially inflate their sales but people don't mind that. Valve also bundled HL2 with ATI cards but those still count as sales. Plus you can't argue against bundling a game with a console: they all did & and it was a better value. Still counts as a stat too. Throw in the fact it was sold in the 80's & early 90's before any re-release was made, that's HUGE sales. IE a big game in the 80's would sell ~400,000, Mario sold a few million (let's say 2), a big game today sells ~3million (Doom 3 was big, Fallout 3 already shipped 4.7+ million units). That's an inflation of 7.5x bringing the inflation for sales of mario to 15 million.

either way, the point still stands: make a great game & people will buy. Like you said, people bought a whole console system JUST for that game.

Epic just can't make great games anymore & are trying to find ways to make more $$ w/o making great content. Similar to what the car industry is doing (people don't want their type of cars so they're trying to find ways to keep making $$ w/o making cars people want). What will non-gamers think when they read the headline "Epic bailout planned". :D



kat@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:34 pm :
Oooo lookie... yet another reason people will use to excuse pirating and warez ;)

Also, when the price of just about everything (consumer good) has come down, why are music, games and videos still the same or (slowly) increasing?



Deadite4@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:47 pm :
Quote:
Also, when the price of just about everything (consumer good) has come down, why are music, games and videos still the same or (slowly) increasing?


Agreed. I remember being able to consistantly find album for $12.99 in the 90's and just a few years ago new movie releases could be had from Walmart for $15. Now its almost always $20 for a movie and $17-$18 for an album. Sure if you really search around you can find the $13 new album from maybe a local music store(though most have closed down around me), but it's rare.



wal@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:30 pm :
The Happy Friar wrote:
Epic just can't make great games anymore & are trying to find ways to make more $$ w/o making great content. Similar to what the car industry is doing (people don't want their type of cars so they're trying to find ways to keep making $$ w/o making cars people want). What will non-gamers think when they read the headline "Epic bailout planned". :D
:D

From British satirical site newsbiscuit.com
Quote:
After continuing falls in the league position of Tottenham Hotspur, the government has announced that it is stepping in to prop up the ailing North London club with an emergency injection of fifty league points.

The club’s stock has fallen sharply since August with a negative goal difference increasing week on week. A number of competitors such as Hull City took points away from them, causing commentators to speculate that the club was wildly over-valued before the current crisis. BBC’s John Motson described the move as ‘perhaps the most extraordinary day in British football’ and an ‘absolute humiliation for Spurs, as if any more were possible.’
:lol:



pbmax@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:51 pm :
I wonder where the $60.00 price point came from. I'm sure a bunch of market analysts at Microsoft have a reason for charging $60.00 a game, but how many more people would be willing to spend $30.00 or $40.00 for a brand new instead of renting it or buying it used?

A thriving secondary market is a GOOD thing for the industry!



pbmax@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:01 pm :
qwertz123 wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/cliff-yablonski/


Image



stabinbac@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:20 pm :
Deadite4 wrote:
Agreed. I remember being able to consistantly find album for $12.99 in the 90's and just a few years ago new movie releases could be had from Walmart for $15. Now its almost always $20 for a movie and $17-$18 for an album. Sure if you really search around you can find the $13 new album from maybe a local music store(though most have closed down around me), but it's rare.

CDs have actually started figuring it out, and new releases can be found for under $13 and sometimes under $10 as their standard price. The latest Metallica abum was under $10.



Sikkpin@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:14 pm :
Cliff says "We're not making enough money!" while he drives away in a fucking Lamborghini. It almost makes me happy that they are moving their focus towards consoles. Their games/engines are overrated anyways.



Deadite4@Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:59 pm :
Nintendo just announced that only people who purchase a new Wii speak peripheral will be able to download the Wii Speak Channel.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201069.html

So this not only removes second hand purchases, but 3rd party peripherals as well it would seem. Buy new, buy new, buy new!!! It's torture being a longtime fan of theirs and having to deal with decisions they have made regarding this era of consoles and the games for them.



BloodRayne@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 pm :
Epic's Cliff Blazinsky (sp?) told the press that DLC should be mandatory for the ending of games, to make sure they can also profit from second hand sales and rentals. Seems a clear cut case, to me, of trying to undermine everything that our free market economy stands for.

But hey, that's just me. :)

Quote:
The secondary market is a huge issue in the United States. Our primary retailer makes the majority of its money off of secondary sales, and so you’re starting to see games taking proactive steps toward that by… if you buy the retail version you get the unlock code.

I’ve talked to some developers who are saying ‘If you want to fight the final boss you go online and pay USD 20, but if you bought the retail version you got it for free’. We don’t make any money when someone rents it, and we don’t make any money when someone buys it used - way more than twice as many people played Gears than bought it.



iceheart@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:40 pm :
Remember when Nintendo tried to make selling their games second hand illegal? This is the same sort of ridiculous greed run amok.

It certainly won't help their (or second hand) sales one bit, since the pirated versions will always be complete in their entirety.

Maybe I should have to buy two copies of the game to play split-screen coop as well?



pbmax@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:43 pm :
some of these developers are crazy. they should realize that a thriving 2nd hand market actually helps them. a lot of people sell games they no longer play to buy new ones.

what makes the video game market different from any other? could you imagine if the auto makers decided that people could no longer buy used cars? WTF!?!?

they need to stop worring about squeezing every last penny out of their legit customers and focus on making quality games that people will want to buy. focusing on customer relations wouldn't hurt either.

its just mind blowing how developers are treating legit gamers these days... :x



zeh@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:13 pm :
He also said that Mirror's Edge doesn't have enough guns...

Quote:
I think Mirror's Edge will be great, too, but they're showing me too much parkour, I want to see the gunplay. I hope it's not all just running and jumping.


I like Cliff and Epic and all, but I think their Ivory Tower got so high in the past few years that they lost track of the little ants below.



Kristus@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:22 pm :
Cliffy B is a tool in my book. But I do wonder when the majority of the game design/publishing companies will learn that a happy customer == monies.



iceheart@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:35 pm :
http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/je ... intarview/
:lol:



Kamikazee@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:36 pm :
So, suppose you bought a cd. Is someone stopping you from using an unlocking tool?

Pirated versions would actually have a higher quality: they work straight out of the box.



aaa111@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:03 pm :
Mark Reign :lol:

Endgames should be DLC :roll:

That doesn't make any sense to me.



Deadite4@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:36 pm :
I don't know about anyone else here, but I also never even got into buying/trading in games until the last generation of games. I still have all my games from the NES/SNES days. Maybe they should focus on current games' replayability and overall goodness......unlike some of the crap they push out today. Maybe people will actually want to hold on to some of their games?



6th Venom@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:36 pm :
Totally true, since the games are so scripted (who said Doom3?) and poor in scenarios (wtf! ;} ), no more super doopa scores killers,
why shouldn't we resell our finished games to bring back some money to us?

Actually i got some games like UTIII in my chamber as trophies, but never replayed it since i bought & finished it, like many recent games.
If i'm so in mods, it's principaly because i love games, but also cause i don't got good new games to play. if devs can't make it, i'll do it! :D

Epic is now a big money machine, they will now learn that we're not money pigs, and that they have to make good games, and not only 'extra graphics but boring' sequels.



qwertz123@Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:14 pm :
iceheart wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/jeffk/cliifyintarview/
:lol:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/cliff-yablonski/

nuff said.

@topic: so where is carmack?



The Happy Friar@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:57 am :
wait... so he's saying games should go back to shareware? You get the 1st part FREE & pay for the rest to know how the story ends??

being against renting/2nd hand is very stupid though: like he said, 1st one gets more people to buy the 2nd. Odds are people rented the first one & like it so much they bought the 2nd one. but his theory is stupid: make a good game & people WILL buy. Super Mario Bros is THE highest selling game, ever, period. First in a series, considered one of the best. People still buy it for Wii even though it's been out for decades & you can find it free on the net.



iceheart@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:10 am :
The Happy Friar wrote:
Super Mario Bros is THE highest selling game, ever, period.


Only because it was bundled with every NES sold. I'm aware that the NES sold very well in large part because people wanted to play Mario, but it's still an "unfair" statistic.

...Though Super Mario Bros 3 is the most selling single game ever that was never bundled with any console, at about 17m copies, barely edging out The Sims (original, no exps) at 16m.



stabinbac@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:18 am :
qwertz123 wrote:
@topic: so where is carmack?


Making games.

Games that sell on the PC.

(And badass vertical racing rockets.)



The Happy Friar@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:00 am :
iceheart wrote:
Only because it was bundled with every NES sold. I'm aware that the NES sold very well in large part because people wanted to play Mario, but it's still an "unfair" statistic.


Valve re-sells everything with each new package to artificially inflate their sales but people don't mind that. Valve also bundled HL2 with ATI cards but those still count as sales. Plus you can't argue against bundling a game with a console: they all did & and it was a better value. Still counts as a stat too. Throw in the fact it was sold in the 80's & early 90's before any re-release was made, that's HUGE sales. IE a big game in the 80's would sell ~400,000, Mario sold a few million (let's say 2), a big game today sells ~3million (Doom 3 was big, Fallout 3 already shipped 4.7+ million units). That's an inflation of 7.5x bringing the inflation for sales of mario to 15 million.

either way, the point still stands: make a great game & people will buy. Like you said, people bought a whole console system JUST for that game.

Epic just can't make great games anymore & are trying to find ways to make more $$ w/o making great content. Similar to what the car industry is doing (people don't want their type of cars so they're trying to find ways to keep making $$ w/o making cars people want). What will non-gamers think when they read the headline "Epic bailout planned". :D



kat@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:34 pm :
Oooo lookie... yet another reason people will use to excuse pirating and warez ;)

Also, when the price of just about everything (consumer good) has come down, why are music, games and videos still the same or (slowly) increasing?



Deadite4@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:47 pm :
Quote:
Also, when the price of just about everything (consumer good) has come down, why are music, games and videos still the same or (slowly) increasing?


Agreed. I remember being able to consistantly find album for $12.99 in the 90's and just a few years ago new movie releases could be had from Walmart for $15. Now its almost always $20 for a movie and $17-$18 for an album. Sure if you really search around you can find the $13 new album from maybe a local music store(though most have closed down around me), but it's rare.



wal@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:30 pm :
The Happy Friar wrote:
Epic just can't make great games anymore & are trying to find ways to make more $$ w/o making great content. Similar to what the car industry is doing (people don't want their type of cars so they're trying to find ways to keep making $$ w/o making cars people want). What will non-gamers think when they read the headline "Epic bailout planned". :D
:D

From British satirical site newsbiscuit.com
Quote:
After continuing falls in the league position of Tottenham Hotspur, the government has announced that it is stepping in to prop up the ailing North London club with an emergency injection of fifty league points.

The club’s stock has fallen sharply since August with a negative goal difference increasing week on week. A number of competitors such as Hull City took points away from them, causing commentators to speculate that the club was wildly over-valued before the current crisis. BBC’s John Motson described the move as ‘perhaps the most extraordinary day in British football’ and an ‘absolute humiliation for Spurs, as if any more were possible.’
:lol:



pbmax@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:51 pm :
I wonder where the $60.00 price point came from. I'm sure a bunch of market analysts at Microsoft have a reason for charging $60.00 a game, but how many more people would be willing to spend $30.00 or $40.00 for a brand new instead of renting it or buying it used?

A thriving secondary market is a GOOD thing for the industry!



pbmax@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:01 pm :
qwertz123 wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/cliff-yablonski/


Image



stabinbac@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:20 pm :
Deadite4 wrote:
Agreed. I remember being able to consistantly find album for $12.99 in the 90's and just a few years ago new movie releases could be had from Walmart for $15. Now its almost always $20 for a movie and $17-$18 for an album. Sure if you really search around you can find the $13 new album from maybe a local music store(though most have closed down around me), but it's rare.

CDs have actually started figuring it out, and new releases can be found for under $13 and sometimes under $10 as their standard price. The latest Metallica abum was under $10.



Sikkpin@Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:14 pm :
Cliff says "We're not making enough money!" while he drives away in a fucking Lamborghini. It almost makes me happy that they are moving their focus towards consoles. Their games/engines are overrated anyways.



Deadite4@Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:59 pm :
Nintendo just announced that only people who purchase a new Wii speak peripheral will be able to download the Wii Speak Channel.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6201069.html

So this not only removes second hand purchases, but 3rd party peripherals as well it would seem. Buy new, buy new, buy new!!! It's torture being a longtime fan of theirs and having to deal with decisions they have made regarding this era of consoles and the games for them.