=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:00 pm :
Quote:
True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.

As far as i know, id software said that they are going to make Doom, Quake, Rage and wolf series INHOUSE, so i presume that they are going to do more wolfensteins.



GUInterface@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:56 am :
I'm assuming they'll probably reboot the series once again. Still, I hope they don't if they ever make another one.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 pm :
Epic have put the Unreal Tournament games to sleep for a while after the disappointing results of UT3. From what we know thus far, it does seem like Wolfie is in the same ballpark so it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Epic on this one. Trouble is, Quake 4 and ETQW weren't exactly smash hits either (though certainly better than Wolfie) leaving id with two main properties to work with, one of them being Rage which is brand new.

Although risky, there's nothing inherently wrong with few IPs just as long as id can pump out games within 2 years (look at Epic, IW, etc.). I wouldn't mind a new Rage or DOOM game very two years. Company size isn't even a problem. Rockstar had over 500 people work on GTA4 (the often quoted "1000" figure accounts for people that worked on but left before the game shipped, so let's halve that) and even if the majority is from the publishing arm of the company that still leaves them with a size comparable to id. IW also has over a hundred people.



pbmax@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:57 pm :
what a pain it must be to sift thru 1,000's of textures and edit swatikas out.



parsonsbear@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:51 am :
@pbmax- actually it's a pretty simple computer vision problem to find shapes like that in an image. Someone could have just written a small program to find them and automatically blur them out. On the other hand, they knew that was going to be a problem going into it, and should have been minding their p's and q's the whole way through.



Dafama2k7@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:49 am :
I fully agree with =FF=Sturm !!!


I hope also that the NEW RAGE and Doom 4 games are developed by Id soft. experts and NOT by Third Party developers, that are good, but not get the amazing Id soft. feel, original, amazing awesome games like Doom 3 (BEST of the BEST !!!), and also not being able to create MODS for Wolfy is the worst thing to me, definitely i will NOT going to buy a game without SDK, editor and things like that, also, i want the easy of use to create good mods that it had Doom 3 !!!

Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.

Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(



AnthonyJa@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:16 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.


I guess you'll be disappointed with Rage then - if you watched Carmack's keynote at quakecon this year, you'd know that he believes it was a mistake to make so much scripted in D3, and that for Rage they will be going back to more C++ code.

I fully approve of this change of philosophy, having seen how much the scripts file hurt the performance of the whole engine, and since performance is one of its biggest issues, I agree with the fix.



Chr1s@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:53 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(


One word, Activision.

Other words, I personally blame most of the crap with them, not got time to go in depth (at work) but ultimately they were in control of game afaik.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:45 am :
The Aug's NPD figures leave the game out of the top 10 console. Since the #10 spot was 92K units and both consoles' game sales are tracked separately, Wolfenstein's combined console sales in the US are at most 184K. Now in the UK either console version outsold PC in the first week (#2) so this is looking bleak. (Btw, for the last week of Aug in the UK Wolf dropped to #4 and in this first week of Sep the game is at #11).



TelMarine@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 am :
http://pc.ign.com/articles/102/1023630p1.html

this says barely over 17k, not sure if it means PC only though. Do we really need more evidence as to why id is switching everything over to in-house now?



shaviro@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:41 am :
The game isn't good enough to warrent better sales. A couple of friends who are both long-time fps fans regret buying the game, didn't finish it and are looking to sell it. I'd say it's a very wise decision for id to do everything in-house from now on. The average quality of the "outsourced" games simply hasn't been good enough, especially the two Raven games.



Sikkpin@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:32 am :
This is sad, indeed, but it was to be expected. Wolfenstein is a pc game. It was what started the fps. When you change it to a console game, how can you expect it to sell well. Console gamers don't know or care about the Wolfenstein name, and pc gamers (the ones who know and love Wolf, the ones that made RtCW a successful sequal) want a pc game, not a poor console port. Had they focused on making a pc game, I guaranteed it would have sold well. This is my fear with Rage and Doom 4.



Deadite4@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:27 pm :
shaviro wrote:
The game isn't good enough to warrent better sales. A couple of friends who are both long-time fps fans regret buying the game, didn't finish it and are looking to sell it. I'd say it's a very wise decision for id to do everything in-house from now on. The average quality of the "outsourced" games simply hasn't been good enough, especially the two Raven games.


Agreed. While I haven't played the new Wolf, Quake 4 felt pretty off. The problem with playing an id game is I want it to feel like an id game. Usually another company cannot capture the feel and tone that another company usually sets. It's really nothing against Raven, or any of the other companies that worked on their ip's, but just simply an id game not made by id isn't going to feel like id. There are exceptions, but generally its true.



The Happy Friar@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:58 pm :
i thought wolf kicked ass.

but you can't blame raven for q4 or wolf's outcome: id was the main company behind it, they just wanted to pump out games to bring in $$. Raven did a great job, it was id that didn't want to come out with a new ip to be used until now.

Besides, now id *IS* that 3rd party company owned by a bigger company. After Rage, they won't work on any of their own ip's any more, they don't own any of them.



Sikkpin@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:36 pm :
What do you mean? Every interview about this, id and ZeniMax have both said that nothing will change. That id will still develop how they've always have, just now they have a solid financial backing which let's them do everything themselves. I sort of see this more as ZeniMax investing in id to make money from their games as opposed to just owning them and making them do ZeniMax wants. I know they can, but, ZeniMax is not EA.

And it's not id's fault for the failure of their 3rd party projects just like it's not because of id RtCW was a success.



pbmax@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:04 pm :
17,000 units on the PC :(

I just finished the xbox 360 version last night. For a console game I had lots of fun with it, but I could see why PC enthusiasts would be let down.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:13 pm :
CONSOLE SALES MEANS A SHIT TO ME! I/WE WANT A FUCKIN PROPER/COMPLETE PC GAME, NOT A FUCKIN COPY/PASTE PORT FROM XBOBOTS
TOO MUCH HYPE ON THIS BULLSHIT! HORRIBLE UI DESIGN, UNSMOOTH GAMEPLAY (IT'S LIKE A DOG IS BITING MY LEG!)
:twisted: It sucks + No dev tools :twisted: (ROFL, NO SDK?!?!?! bah, don't release it... the game already sucks)
Fuck you Raven Software (Sorry, you could send Endrant to shit because YOUR multiplayer was thousand times better... yes quake 4), End-Rant (SPLASH DAMAGE -02-) and the other fuckin noob supporters (Nice false promises about the multiplayer... for noobs it will be the heaven. NO?). There was a video that predicted ALL this shit before :D ... and the wolfpro now means shit (rofl! There is no SDK! Go h3x edit it ! None will give a shit to what modders do nowadays :wink: , That INCLUDES my mod, NONE WILL GIVE A SHIT TO IT TOO)
They could listen to the COMMUNITY. BUT HEY! There is money... wait, there isn't XD (Shit sales... BUT! with the number of REAL competitive players and PUB players of Both RTCW/ETWOLF it could sell 10X times more ).
FAIL!
http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/im ... -sight.jpg

NOW DEVELOPERS...
This proves how bad they use Id tech 2.9 (sorry I mean id tech 4), even 20x worse than ETQW. Let me ... Let me see! ARE YOU FUCKIN JOKING ME? DO YOU EVEN THINK THAT I AM GOING TO BUY BRINK? KEEP DREAMING ABOUT THE GOOD OLD GAMEPLAY, THEY WON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Graphics =/= Gameplay... But THIS NOT EVEN HAS GRAPHICS ROFL NOR WOLF GAMEPLAY (COD/H&D/BF/ETQW/R-O/ CLONE 99.99 %).
Where is wolfenstein? AH I KNOW ! On the title and on the super mega open 'SP', that it's only worth for 19.90 Euros (Not 64,90 fag euros... There is no multiplayer).

Failure... (Why?) Because ID Software SHOULDN'T ALLOW THIRD PARTIES TO FUCK THEIR IPS... BUT HEY! LET'S GIVE END-RANT (SPLASH DAMAGE -02-) A NEW GAME TO RUIN :D

WAS IT HARD TO USE QUAKE 4 1.4.2 CODE FOR THE MULTIPLAYER? WAS IT REALLY THAT FUCKIN HARD? WHY ETQW? WHYYYY? JUST WHY???!?!?!? MONEY? YOU HAVE LOST A LOT OF SHIT! SO IT'S NOT A SUCCESS!
IT IS A FUCKIN UNSMOOTH SHIT TO WORK WITH! FROM THE ANIMATIONS AND TICK RATE TO THE PERFORMANCE! (WHAT'S THE POINT OF USING ETQW WHEN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO USE MEGAFUCKINTEXTURES??? IT'S INSANE AND RETARDED!
But Hey! The super 2009 computers run everything smooth, no? Let's give a shit to the community... :D
Keep it up developing games PRIMARY for consoles rather than PC, WITHOUT GIVING PROPER TOOLS TO THE MODDERS AND FUCKIN THE WHOLE ENGINE TO THE OTHER PEOPLE INTERESTED. (THAT INCLUDES WAITING 8 YEARS FOR A SHIT GAME THAT IT'S NOTHING NOTHING AND NOTHING BUT A COD GAME).

GOOD JOB! Now go and sell MW2! It's a pure skill (rofl) and enjoyment game... I DON't Fuckin want to see another wolfenstein, quake sequels or remakes... THEY HAVE BEEN FUCKIN THEM SINCE 2004! (with the exceptions of DOOM 3 and PREY) WOW, IT'S FUNNY, DOOM 3 was MADE BY ID. IT WAS VERY GOOD!
PREY WAS VERY GOOD (A LITTLE BIT NOOBY) But GOOD. It SOLD MORE THAN WOLF and It was Better...
(Now waiting for the censuring of bad words... Like Endrant and Splash Damage. Bad words)

THIS IS WHY I LEFT WOLFZONE PORTAL... THEY WERE SUPPORTING A HORRIBLE GAME...
Now I haven't/Don't want to post on that portal ANYTHING MORE. This is the same shit story as etqw, JUST WORSE! (THIS GAME DIED IN THE BETA)

CHEERS
=FF=STURM



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:13 pm :
Image



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:50 pm :
"WE DID A GREAT TECHNOLOGY GAME"... Yeah for a 2005 game :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzl_zGo1ams

FUCKIN NOOBS! GTFO



rebb@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:07 pm :
Calm down :|

You're right, it really is a bit of a shame that they are not planning to make the game moddable via SDK, it has some really interesting enhancements added to the old idTech4 core.

Thanks for the video link btw.



goliathvt@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:12 pm :
Not sure where all this craziness is coming from... yah, I get that you're disappointed with the game, but damn...

First off, Splash Damage did a fantastic job with ETQW. That game is more balanced and more intricate than anything that has ever hit the market. Unfortunately, kiddies were far too impatient to sit down and learn the game, leaving only the hardcore gamers at the comp table. Activision also completely dropped the ball with publicity. Where SD, id and Activision all mis-stepped was the release and over-hyping a BETA that many comp players mistook as a finished product.

SD's only real "failure" was running at 30Hz rather than 60 and not having enough experience to tighten up a few of the issues that were problematic at release. However, compared with every other game I played that Fall season, ETQW was the most refined of them all, even with all of its quirks.

Compare the final product of ETQW with Splinter Cell Double Agent or Far Cry 2, for example. SD, in that regard, did a great job.

As for Wolf: Raven did a fine job with the singleplayer. I experienced zero crashes on my PC and saw the most fluid simultaneous multi-body physics I've seen in a game to date. They really did deliver on the idea where you could walk into an apartment with moveables everywhere, hit the Mire ability, and watch as every single item got tossed asunder without dropping a single frame (assuming your system is beefy enough).

Yes, the "consoleitus" of the game is rather blatant. But hardly worth the vitriol you're spouting... especially considering most gamers will install the mods the community here has been building since the game's release.

As for multiplayer, yup, that's a pure fail. That portion of the game should have been held back and released later, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe that's where your anger is directed... but Raven, id and especially SD are hardly proper targets for it.



vertex007@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:43 pm :
that the game isn´t a big succes is no surprise, even though I am enjoying the sp and I think its not that bad at all, it came 1 - 2 years too late to have a bigger impact.
in 2007 it could have had a bigger presence and be a direct contender to let´say Bioshock but at the end of 2009 it is just ok, it does looks and feels dated, gameplay has its high and low but nothing really stands out.
I say take it or leave it but most kiddies nowadays did´t even know about Wolfenstein and don´t give a shit, everybody is waiting for MW2...
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.
I dunno I like it because of the nostalgia and all but at the end of the day I can´t really say well done Raven, this release is lacking...
mp is a bad joke, so I fully understand when people get a bit emotional about that.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:04 pm :
goliathvt wrote:
First off, Splash Damage did a fantastic job with ETQW. That game is more balanced and more intricate than anything that has ever hit the market.


I agree completely. Aside from "teh flaw" (see below) ETQW exceeded my expectations and is a contender for best team-based MP game of all time.

Quote:
Unfortunately, kiddies were far too impatient to sit down and learn the game, leaving only the hardcore gamers at the comp table. Activision also completely dropped the ball with publicity. Where SD, id and Activision all mis-stepped was the release and over-hyping a BETA that many comp players mistook as a finished product.


Activision dropped the ball completely. It was "on purpose" because their eyes were on the release of CoD4. Same story with Q4 and the release of CoD2. I also agree the beta was mis-handled by all three companies but for different reasons IMHO: Firstly, there was no middle-term between a very restricted closed beta composed mostly of friends of SD (I know a few) and clans all of which are either comp or at least ultra-hardcore players and focused too much on tweaking and getting the game to run like the relatively small sample wanted. This was followed by a massive open beta on FilePlanet, FileShack and every other mainstream website which meant it was viewed by players as a demo. This brought two problems:

On one hand, the comp/hardcore's narrow view of the game induced decisions that had little bearing on the comp aspect but hindered accessibility for the last majority of buyers (pub): no VoIP, obsession move speed and map tweaks, downplaying problems with vehicles, etc. (this is from indirect knowledge - feel free to correct me) When the game hit public beta you had a large number of players (50 thousand wasn't it?) that tried a game with little if any anti-lag, clunky vehicles, gameplay options that didn't work well with movement speed, frustrating server browser issues (999 server bug - same one Quake 4 had two years prior) which painted ETQW as a buggy, chaotic mess for mainstream people (BF, TF, CS players).

Instead, there should have been a single beta programme, staggered obviously but gunning for the 5-10 thousand daily ET players. Then have the demo at release date for mainstream gamers. As a software developer myself I'm well aware of the old adage that the most important thing in your product is the last thing to be done but still, for a pure (+ bots) MP game, the fact the anti-lag, movement speed, server browser and network bandwidth wasn't nailed before public beta 1 really shocked me. The public beta helped get VoIP in but sadly not for the all important retail release. Architectural decisions were far too along to be changed after public beta feedback. The SDK came out too late (Source's was previewed to select teams before HL2's release for instance). The die was cast, etc. etc.

EDIT: I also want to add that ETQW was thrust upon the maelstrom of 2007 starting with Bioshock in late August until late Nov with UT3. In between we had Assassin's Creed, The Orange Box, Halo 3, CoD4, Crysis, Gears of War PC, Medal of Honour: Airborne.

IF id already had an established community (like Steam/Blizzard Account/EA Account) they could have sampled from there. But id moves very slowly when it comes to strategic business decisions. I was expecting Quake Live to NOT have an official forums <- only half-kidding here. They seem to be using twitter now (Sokal) but id has to understand games need official community centres and that's a 5-8 year old idea.

Quote:
SD's only real "failure" was running at 30Hz rather than 60 and not having enough experience to tighten up a few of the issues that were problematic at release. However, compared with every other game I played that Fall season, ETQW was the most refined of them all, even with all of its quirks.


Nail + head. The 30Hz really turns me off. I dislike the ADD-driven HUD, the red arrows, the modded pure restarts, and the inconsistent fast movement vs slow tactical functionality (solo-assignment as an example) but those are way, way below the frustration I get with the laggy-uncapped-60fps or the unsmooth-capped-30fps feeling. I sincerely hope Brink won't have this limitation. I can tolerate it in ETQW because it IS such a great game set in the Quake universe. But a whole new IP, going into the market saturated 8 v 8 gameplay with "nothing but"* SMART and player customisation won't have much of a draw.

I hope Bethesda can market the game properly going forward (that "teaser for a trailer of a teaser" didn't really work I thought). Closed QuakeCon sessions seemed a mis-step also.

Quote:
Yes, the "consoleitus" of the game is rather blatant. But hardly worth the vitriol you're spouting... especially considering most gamers will install the mods the community here has been building since the game's release.


I don't have the game but from what I read, hear and see of the game's console slant it seems too far gone that "a few simple mods" could make up for. I went back to the first news about Wolf and came across a discussion about whether the game was coming to the PC at all so it's pretty clear this was a console-centric game.

Quote:
As for multiplayer, yup, that's a pure fail. That portion of the game should have been held back and released later, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe that's where your anger is directed... but Raven, id and especially SD are hardly proper targets for it.


From what I've read, it seems Endrant's major problem was introducing the Veil in MP, most of the (bad) decisions were passed on from 3Wave; I wonder if the creation of Endrant somehow was to protect SD's name because they must have known the MP was going to fail. Like you, I also think id should have put their foot down and delayed the MP down the line (free DLC publicity). I do think the best course of action would have been to change the MP at the 3Wave -> Endrant transition though.

* I'm not dismissing these features, I'm making the case some people out there may put forward.

=FF=Sturm Take it easy; life's too short.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:05 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.


Perhaps because, as reported, they changed from open-city gameplay into a more traditional (for id/Raven) hub-based?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:53 pm :
I do know that the single player part is Very good, but the mp just plain sucks (8 years waiting for a crappy, crappy BUT crappy!!! mod...), even with wolfpro (Just think for a moment, what WILL happen if they don't release the tools?). They are good modders, but without materials you cannot do nothing other than a few changes (hud, defs, scripts, atmospheres and so few more things) and maybe ideas...
Etqw was Overall 'Good', but the 30 hz limitation killed it... I don't know nothing about brink, but i know one of the developers that it's talking about it and I am not getting convinced... It's like a Etqw mod rather than a new one. I also saw a gameplay video leaked somewhere :(
They say fast paced action and you see: Slow motion gameplay with iron sights and camping without leaning. I don't want to know What is Slow paced gameplay to them...
Rtcw was not only famous because of the SP... but the Mp. It was the MOST important thing of it, based on the old TF. (airstrikes, arty,flamethrower,drop ammo,drophealth,dynamite,pliers,syringes...).
Multiplayer ---> Auf wiedersehen http://www.own3d.tv/watch/wolfenstein-d ... 16206.html



parsonsbear@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:01 pm :
I would absolutely love to see a post-mortem of wolfenstein... something went very wrong with the development. I suspect there's no way in hell we'll get an official one, but there's a chance someone involved in it could log in anonymously and give us the scoop.

One interesting note- RTCW was hugely popular on the original XBox, as was Doom3. Maybe they should have just said, gosh, this whole MP thing just isnt coming together, instead of letting the reviewers tear it apart for a half assed new MP, lets just put RTCW on the disk and call it a day. I'd goddamn love to play mp_beach on my 360.

Compare the behind the scenes dev interviews of Wolfenstein and Wolverine- FF-Sturm, that video you linked to has some very interesting body language. The Wolf devs look like they're about to serve us a hamburger that got dropped on the floor because their boss won't let them cook a new one.

RE: ETQW-

It's interesting that SD hasn't released any video of BRINK in motion, considering that's the number one problem with their branch of the engine. Reading the devs in the forums, they're not exactly coming out and saying, yeah that's totally fixed no problem dudes it's buttah.

One thing I will give SD, they're community/official forums are the best, hands down. I really wish id was as open as they used to be/as SD is.

I said it before, i'll say it again, ETQW's main failure was its learning curve. The fact that they just drop you into the action with minimal instruction is INSANE. They should have had an hour long tutorial mode with voiceover, leading you by the hand through several mission scenarios as both races and several classes. I absolutely loved ETQW, but I can't get any of my friends to play it, even though they're superb quake3 players, and love the shit out of RTS games.



vertex007@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 pm :
Mordenkainen wrote:
vertex007 wrote:
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.


Perhaps because, as reported, they changed from open-city gameplay into a more traditional (for id/Raven) hub-based?


I don´t know ..., the "open city" is still a corridor but thats not the major problem, it is hard to say, at best you experience it yourself but every session I play the game there are always moments where I think yes great !, then 5 minutes later meh ...it is in all the little details, it doesn´t fit, in D3 or Q4 everything fits together, there is no blatant weak point in the whole thing, here is more the case of close but not quite there.
like the project was little too ambitious and at the end they cutted things down shortly to get it done.
I hope Rage is not going to end up like this.
all personal impressions though. ...



Phobos@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:17 pm :
I disagree with the learning curve part, being as etqw had exactly that (videos with voiceovers providing directions of how to use what class for what mission, examples).

Wolf I continue to not be able to support simply because I play the damn game. In all honesty it looks half decent and pretty intriguing if I could get it to run how it should. But the MP? and Q4 mp? And ETQW?

Netcode and 24fps animations. Need i say more? From a semi-pro players' point of view, it's very hard to love a game that runs like the robot of the 80s one high end pc's. This was the case with all 3 games I mentioned. You'd think they'd have improved it substantially or found a workaround in the 5 years the engine has been on the market.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:32 pm :
Phobos wrote:
I disagree with the learning curve part, being as etqw had exactly that (videos with voiceovers providing directions of how to use what class for what mission, examples).


Hmm? There's no such videos in the game, unless you're talking about the console versions? I seem to recall there being a couple more newbie-friendly features in those but my memory is fuzzy. I agree with parsonsbear, the learning curve was a definite factor and SD agreed because patch 1.4 brought loads of features to smooth out the curve, including an offline tutorial and more VO tooltips, mine and APT indicators, etc. Of course, by now ETQW already had a reputation of a complex game. Wolf:ET is a cut above your average team-based game, throw in vehicles, deployables and asymmetric team abilities and a lot of newcomers to objective-driven gameplay were understandably overwhelmed.

Those two tutorial videos from QCon '06 should have been in the game from the start. The full game ought to have two videos for each map explaining the objectives from each team's respective view point. Even Quake 3: Team Arena had videos explaining CTF, One Flag Capture, Harvester, etc. and those game modes were much simpler to grasp. Someone outside the normal day-to-day development with enough perspective should have stepped in and called for it. I don't know if that ever happened but personally many of us did voice concerns about this during the open beta.



parsonsbear@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:04 am :
They have, it's called idTech5, at least in terms of framerate. Very curious to see how they're handling netcode in it- seems they recognize that was an infrastructure thing they just bombed on. (though i've heard id went in and fixed it for Q4)

I wonder how ETQW would have fared without vehicles- I'm honestly one of the people that hated it, and it seems like a lotta the net/physics calcs came from that stuff. I could be way off on that though.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:16 am :
Rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vORM1MC_ ... ture=email

Fuckin noobs once again...
They've got more leaks than the titanic! I can't stop laughing about these kids :twisted: I mean.. If i am going to hack (shit that i don't waste my time on)... I WON'T TELL ANYONE THAT I AM PLANNING IT!
http://oobies.org/smith/smilies/happy/Epic-ROFL.gif

Edit: This made my day :D

Code:
SouthernDemolisher (3 minutes ago)
lmao, i never get banned, because im better than everyone. how do cheaters suck? (and dont say "because they cheat/ they cant play without cheats) and people make money and ENJOY coding.
i think i win.

Another poor daddy that will lost/get banned his Cdkey due to his little kid... yay



Mordenkainen@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:06 am :
NPD have released the top 11-20 list and Wolfenstein (XBOX 360) shows up at #18. Because the Madden Wii sales are 63K units and the PS3 didn't chart in the top 20 it's plausible that the game didn't top 100K units for both consoles (theoretically it could reach ~125K though). :|

EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.



ALien8ed@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:25 am :
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.



vertex007@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:47 am :
ALien8ed wrote:
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.


to repeat myself, the game may be lacking confronted to the high quality standards of past releases but its no way a mediocre title (SP), I think something went wrong with activision and yes they are to blame for the MP part, but Raven do not deserve such poor sales.



jRAD@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:58 am :
Mordenkainen wrote:
From what I've read, it seems Endrant's major problem was introducing the Veil in MP, most of the (bad) decisions were passed on from 3Wave; I wonder if the creation of Endrant somehow was to protect SD's name because they must have known the MP was going to fail.


Splash Damage have nothing to do with Endrant or Wolfenstein MP, other than being the place that a couple of the guys worked before they went off to found their company.

SD learned what Endrant were working on at the same time as everyone else: when it was publicly announced. :)



ALien8ed@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:54 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
ALien8ed wrote:
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.


to repeat myself, the game may be lacking confronted to the high quality standards of past releases but its no way a mediocre title (SP), I think something went wrong with activision and yes they are to blame for the MP part, but Raven do not deserve such poor sales.


For a AAA title which has been in the works for many years the SP was mediocre IMO. Add to that the disgrace that is the MP portion and it's no surprise this puppy aint selling. Each to their own i guess.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:12 pm :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?



vertex007@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:21 pm :
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:38 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated

rofl
I've seen better "games" than this wolf mp (quallity)... and these are mods of WOLFENSTEIN:Enemy territory (FREE!)
http://www.llaumgui.com/public/images/l ... elite2.jpg
http://downloadsource.net/img/5c76cdd31 ... 67.jpg.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2899 ... dtrhg8.jpg

LOOK :D

2008
http://www.juegomania.org/Wolfenstein/f ... nstein.jpg
2009 ?
http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplayer.c ... nstein.jpg

Bye bye to this too :D
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/k ... cility.jpg



Mordenkainen@Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:47 am :
jRAD wrote:
Splash Damage have nothing to do with Endrant or Wolfenstein MP, other than being the place that a couple of the guys worked before they went off to found their company.

SD learned what Endrant were working on at the same time as everyone else: when it was publicly announced. :)


Thanks. I was very surprised to see Wils and Neil leave back then and this means they wanted to do their own thing. Thanks again for the insight.



aardwolf@Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:09 pm :
=FF=Sturm wrote:
vertex007 wrote:
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated

rofl
I've seen better "games" than this wolf mp (quallity)... and these are mods of WOLFENSTEIN:Enemy territory (FREE!)
http://www.llaumgui.com/public/images/l ... elite2.jpg
http://downloadsource.net/img/5c76cdd31 ... 67.jpg.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2899 ... dtrhg8.jpg

LOOK :D

2008
http://www.juegomania.org/Wolfenstein/f ... nstein.jpg
2009 ?
http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplayer.c ... nstein.jpg

Bye bye to this too :D
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/k ... cility.jpg


Yeah, but does anyone play True Combat Elite these days at all?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:46 pm :
Quote:
Yeah, but does anyone play True Combat Elite these days at all?

Now yes... thanks to a "new" update. I am still playing it and it has way more players than wolfenstein mp 2009.
It has an average of +100 players everyday, while wolf:et has more than 5000 (nearly 6000) and rtcw (1.4,1.0,1.33,demo) (the last time i checked it) +400



Kiltron@Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:26 am :
Don't really know what these youngsters are complaining about. Wolfenstein is a fantastic game using the D3 engine just as fun and good as Return To Castle Wolfenstein using the Q3 engine.

In all honesty and I rarely do this or feel this way but I skipped on getting it for the PC and opted for the PS3 version and its great. I'll do the same when Rage comes out cause I won't be dealing with modding it.

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is a game that just did not look that great on the PS3. Not sure how it looked on PC but the PS3 version was flat and bland looking and the vehicle physics was horrible.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:06 pm :
Kiltron wrote:
Don't really know what these youngsters are complaining about. Wolfenstein is a fantastic game using the D3 engine just as fun and good as Return To Castle Wolfenstein using the Q3 engine.

these youngsters fails :D
I remember the times when I played with 64 players at beach, the coodination, the mature and stuff (was not as CS, when (on that time) everyone went rambo with a desert eagle)
Rtcw had a great atmosphere /sp/ and one of the best multiplayers ever made (Based a little bit on Team fortress... But even more addictive).
On the other hand, Doom 3 had a great atmosphere (not only as a game, but when you mix some rtcw atmos music with doom 3 or viceversa it feels excellent!).
This new wolf is just a (Moh + Cod + Quake 4 with the name of wolfenstein). Of course this doesn't mean its bad (single player), Right now It's the Second best Singleplayer game using Id tech 4... But the multiplayer is a JOKE :|
__________________________________________________________________
Also, I found a bug in the singleplayer of this new "Wolf"
When you start at the train station... well, i saw some trailers and gameplay before.
And if i am not wrong, it was SUPPOSSED to start with the travel of the train OUT of THE CITY! just Like Half life, looking to all the enviroment... but wow, there isnt nothing but a shit break between the cutscene and the train station.
You can check this by looking to some trailers (gameplay and interviews)

http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gam ... ?ch=1&sd=1

the 4th stop:
the story revealed



pbmax@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:04 pm :
Mordenkainen wrote:
EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.


I wonder how many millions of dollars were lost on this game and who takes the biggest hit? id, Raven or Activision?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:26 pm :
pbmax wrote:
Mordenkainen wrote:
EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.


I wonder how many millions of dollars were lost on this game and who takes the biggest hit? id, Raven or Activision?

nothing... they made the textures in paint



parsonsbear@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:41 pm :
I'm guessing Activision takes the majority of risk. id/Raven got paid to develop it, atvi laid out for marketing and development costs.

But they're printing money, so it's not a huge deal to them. id moved on, left a crummy situation behind. Raven probably took the biggest hit- maybe they didn't lose money, but if this was a big success they probably wouldn't have had to layoff 30% of their employees. Of course, Endrant don't exist at all anymore...

Lets be civil here- lots of talented people worked really hard on this game. In many ways its the best looking idTech4 release so far. The artists at Raven did a great job, and don't deserve the blame for upper level decisions.



vertex007@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:39 pm :
this game must be really a disaster in financial terms, not only the general poor sales but now this:

http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/2 ... y?from=rss

can you immagine how many units are being taken back and ---burned/destroyed ?

and apparently just for this http://www.schnittberichte.com/www/SBs/ ... /haken.jpg

OMG ...I guess "kein kommentar"

parsonsbear wrote:
I'm guessing Activision takes the majority of risk. id/Raven got paid to develop it, atvi laid out for marketing and development costs.

But they're printing money, so it's not a huge deal to them. id moved on, left a crummy situation behind. Raven probably took the biggest hit- maybe they didn't lose money, but if this was a big success they probably wouldn't have had to layoff 30% of their employees. Of course, Endrant don't exist at all anymore...

Lets be civil here- lots of talented people worked really hard on this game. In many ways its the best looking idTech4 release so far. The artists at Raven did a great job, and don't deserve the blame for upper level decisions.


True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:00 pm :
Quote:
True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.

As far as i know, id software said that they are going to make Doom, Quake, Rage and wolf series INHOUSE, so i presume that they are going to do more wolfensteins.



GUInterface@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:56 am :
I'm assuming they'll probably reboot the series once again. Still, I hope they don't if they ever make another one.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 pm :
Epic have put the Unreal Tournament games to sleep for a while after the disappointing results of UT3. From what we know thus far, it does seem like Wolfie is in the same ballpark so it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Epic on this one. Trouble is, Quake 4 and ETQW weren't exactly smash hits either (though certainly better than Wolfie) leaving id with two main properties to work with, one of them being Rage which is brand new.

Although risky, there's nothing inherently wrong with few IPs just as long as id can pump out games within 2 years (look at Epic, IW, etc.). I wouldn't mind a new Rage or DOOM game very two years. Company size isn't even a problem. Rockstar had over 500 people work on GTA4 (the often quoted "1000" figure accounts for people that worked on but left before the game shipped, so let's halve that) and even if the majority is from the publishing arm of the company that still leaves them with a size comparable to id. IW also has over a hundred people.



pbmax@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:57 pm :
what a pain it must be to sift thru 1,000's of textures and edit swatikas out.



parsonsbear@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:51 am :
@pbmax- actually it's a pretty simple computer vision problem to find shapes like that in an image. Someone could have just written a small program to find them and automatically blur them out. On the other hand, they knew that was going to be a problem going into it, and should have been minding their p's and q's the whole way through.



Dafama2k7@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:49 am :
I fully agree with =FF=Sturm !!!


I hope also that the NEW RAGE and Doom 4 games are developed by Id soft. experts and NOT by Third Party developers, that are good, but not get the amazing Id soft. feel, original, amazing awesome games like Doom 3 (BEST of the BEST !!!), and also not being able to create MODS for Wolfy is the worst thing to me, definitely i will NOT going to buy a game without SDK, editor and things like that, also, i want the easy of use to create good mods that it had Doom 3 !!!

Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.

Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(



AnthonyJa@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:16 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.


I guess you'll be disappointed with Rage then - if you watched Carmack's keynote at quakecon this year, you'd know that he believes it was a mistake to make so much scripted in D3, and that for Rage they will be going back to more C++ code.

I fully approve of this change of philosophy, having seen how much the scripts file hurt the performance of the whole engine, and since performance is one of its biggest issues, I agree with the fix.



Chr1s@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:53 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(


One word, Activision.

Other words, I personally blame most of the crap with them, not got time to go in depth (at work) but ultimately they were in control of game afaik.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:00 pm :
Quote:
True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.

As far as i know, id software said that they are going to make Doom, Quake, Rage and wolf series INHOUSE, so i presume that they are going to do more wolfensteins.



GUInterface@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:56 am :
I'm assuming they'll probably reboot the series once again. Still, I hope they don't if they ever make another one.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 pm :
Epic have put the Unreal Tournament games to sleep for a while after the disappointing results of UT3. From what we know thus far, it does seem like Wolfie is in the same ballpark so it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Epic on this one. Trouble is, Quake 4 and ETQW weren't exactly smash hits either (though certainly better than Wolfie) leaving id with two main properties to work with, one of them being Rage which is brand new.

Although risky, there's nothing inherently wrong with few IPs just as long as id can pump out games within 2 years (look at Epic, IW, etc.). I wouldn't mind a new Rage or DOOM game very two years. Company size isn't even a problem. Rockstar had over 500 people work on GTA4 (the often quoted "1000" figure accounts for people that worked on but left before the game shipped, so let's halve that) and even if the majority is from the publishing arm of the company that still leaves them with a size comparable to id. IW also has over a hundred people.



pbmax@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:57 pm :
what a pain it must be to sift thru 1,000's of textures and edit swatikas out.



parsonsbear@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:51 am :
@pbmax- actually it's a pretty simple computer vision problem to find shapes like that in an image. Someone could have just written a small program to find them and automatically blur them out. On the other hand, they knew that was going to be a problem going into it, and should have been minding their p's and q's the whole way through.



Dafama2k7@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:49 am :
I fully agree with =FF=Sturm !!!


I hope also that the NEW RAGE and Doom 4 games are developed by Id soft. experts and NOT by Third Party developers, that are good, but not get the amazing Id soft. feel, original, amazing awesome games like Doom 3 (BEST of the BEST !!!), and also not being able to create MODS for Wolfy is the worst thing to me, definitely i will NOT going to buy a game without SDK, editor and things like that, also, i want the easy of use to create good mods that it had Doom 3 !!!

Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.

Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(



AnthonyJa@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:16 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.


I guess you'll be disappointed with Rage then - if you watched Carmack's keynote at quakecon this year, you'd know that he believes it was a mistake to make so much scripted in D3, and that for Rage they will be going back to more C++ code.

I fully approve of this change of philosophy, having seen how much the scripts file hurt the performance of the whole engine, and since performance is one of its biggest issues, I agree with the fix.



Chr1s@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:53 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(


One word, Activision.

Other words, I personally blame most of the crap with them, not got time to go in depth (at work) but ultimately they were in control of game afaik.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:45 am :
The Aug's NPD figures leave the game out of the top 10 console. Since the #10 spot was 92K units and both consoles' game sales are tracked separately, Wolfenstein's combined console sales in the US are at most 184K. Now in the UK either console version outsold PC in the first week (#2) so this is looking bleak. (Btw, for the last week of Aug in the UK Wolf dropped to #4 and in this first week of Sep the game is at #11).



TelMarine@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:50 am :
http://pc.ign.com/articles/102/1023630p1.html

this says barely over 17k, not sure if it means PC only though. Do we really need more evidence as to why id is switching everything over to in-house now?



shaviro@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:41 am :
The game isn't good enough to warrent better sales. A couple of friends who are both long-time fps fans regret buying the game, didn't finish it and are looking to sell it. I'd say it's a very wise decision for id to do everything in-house from now on. The average quality of the "outsourced" games simply hasn't been good enough, especially the two Raven games.



Sikkpin@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:32 am :
This is sad, indeed, but it was to be expected. Wolfenstein is a pc game. It was what started the fps. When you change it to a console game, how can you expect it to sell well. Console gamers don't know or care about the Wolfenstein name, and pc gamers (the ones who know and love Wolf, the ones that made RtCW a successful sequal) want a pc game, not a poor console port. Had they focused on making a pc game, I guaranteed it would have sold well. This is my fear with Rage and Doom 4.



Deadite4@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:27 pm :
shaviro wrote:
The game isn't good enough to warrent better sales. A couple of friends who are both long-time fps fans regret buying the game, didn't finish it and are looking to sell it. I'd say it's a very wise decision for id to do everything in-house from now on. The average quality of the "outsourced" games simply hasn't been good enough, especially the two Raven games.


Agreed. While I haven't played the new Wolf, Quake 4 felt pretty off. The problem with playing an id game is I want it to feel like an id game. Usually another company cannot capture the feel and tone that another company usually sets. It's really nothing against Raven, or any of the other companies that worked on their ip's, but just simply an id game not made by id isn't going to feel like id. There are exceptions, but generally its true.



The Happy Friar@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:58 pm :
i thought wolf kicked ass.

but you can't blame raven for q4 or wolf's outcome: id was the main company behind it, they just wanted to pump out games to bring in $$. Raven did a great job, it was id that didn't want to come out with a new ip to be used until now.

Besides, now id *IS* that 3rd party company owned by a bigger company. After Rage, they won't work on any of their own ip's any more, they don't own any of them.



Sikkpin@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:36 pm :
What do you mean? Every interview about this, id and ZeniMax have both said that nothing will change. That id will still develop how they've always have, just now they have a solid financial backing which let's them do everything themselves. I sort of see this more as ZeniMax investing in id to make money from their games as opposed to just owning them and making them do ZeniMax wants. I know they can, but, ZeniMax is not EA.

And it's not id's fault for the failure of their 3rd party projects just like it's not because of id RtCW was a success.



pbmax@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:04 pm :
17,000 units on the PC :(

I just finished the xbox 360 version last night. For a console game I had lots of fun with it, but I could see why PC enthusiasts would be let down.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:13 pm :
CONSOLE SALES MEANS A SHIT TO ME! I/WE WANT A FUCKIN PROPER/COMPLETE PC GAME, NOT A FUCKIN COPY/PASTE PORT FROM XBOBOTS
TOO MUCH HYPE ON THIS BULLSHIT! HORRIBLE UI DESIGN, UNSMOOTH GAMEPLAY (IT'S LIKE A DOG IS BITING MY LEG!)
:twisted: It sucks + No dev tools :twisted: (ROFL, NO SDK?!?!?! bah, don't release it... the game already sucks)
Fuck you Raven Software (Sorry, you could send Endrant to shit because YOUR multiplayer was thousand times better... yes quake 4), End-Rant (SPLASH DAMAGE -02-) and the other fuckin noob supporters (Nice false promises about the multiplayer... for noobs it will be the heaven. NO?). There was a video that predicted ALL this shit before :D ... and the wolfpro now means shit (rofl! There is no SDK! Go h3x edit it ! None will give a shit to what modders do nowadays :wink: , That INCLUDES my mod, NONE WILL GIVE A SHIT TO IT TOO)
They could listen to the COMMUNITY. BUT HEY! There is money... wait, there isn't XD (Shit sales... BUT! with the number of REAL competitive players and PUB players of Both RTCW/ETWOLF it could sell 10X times more ).
FAIL!
http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/im ... -sight.jpg

NOW DEVELOPERS...
This proves how bad they use Id tech 2.9 (sorry I mean id tech 4), even 20x worse than ETQW. Let me ... Let me see! ARE YOU FUCKIN JOKING ME? DO YOU EVEN THINK THAT I AM GOING TO BUY BRINK? KEEP DREAMING ABOUT THE GOOD OLD GAMEPLAY, THEY WON'T GIVE A SHIT.
Graphics =/= Gameplay... But THIS NOT EVEN HAS GRAPHICS ROFL NOR WOLF GAMEPLAY (COD/H&D/BF/ETQW/R-O/ CLONE 99.99 %).
Where is wolfenstein? AH I KNOW ! On the title and on the super mega open 'SP', that it's only worth for 19.90 Euros (Not 64,90 fag euros... There is no multiplayer).

Failure... (Why?) Because ID Software SHOULDN'T ALLOW THIRD PARTIES TO FUCK THEIR IPS... BUT HEY! LET'S GIVE END-RANT (SPLASH DAMAGE -02-) A NEW GAME TO RUIN :D

WAS IT HARD TO USE QUAKE 4 1.4.2 CODE FOR THE MULTIPLAYER? WAS IT REALLY THAT FUCKIN HARD? WHY ETQW? WHYYYY? JUST WHY???!?!?!? MONEY? YOU HAVE LOST A LOT OF SHIT! SO IT'S NOT A SUCCESS!
IT IS A FUCKIN UNSMOOTH SHIT TO WORK WITH! FROM THE ANIMATIONS AND TICK RATE TO THE PERFORMANCE! (WHAT'S THE POINT OF USING ETQW WHEN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO USE MEGAFUCKINTEXTURES??? IT'S INSANE AND RETARDED!
But Hey! The super 2009 computers run everything smooth, no? Let's give a shit to the community... :D
Keep it up developing games PRIMARY for consoles rather than PC, WITHOUT GIVING PROPER TOOLS TO THE MODDERS AND FUCKIN THE WHOLE ENGINE TO THE OTHER PEOPLE INTERESTED. (THAT INCLUDES WAITING 8 YEARS FOR A SHIT GAME THAT IT'S NOTHING NOTHING AND NOTHING BUT A COD GAME).

GOOD JOB! Now go and sell MW2! It's a pure skill (rofl) and enjoyment game... I DON't Fuckin want to see another wolfenstein, quake sequels or remakes... THEY HAVE BEEN FUCKIN THEM SINCE 2004! (with the exceptions of DOOM 3 and PREY) WOW, IT'S FUNNY, DOOM 3 was MADE BY ID. IT WAS VERY GOOD!
PREY WAS VERY GOOD (A LITTLE BIT NOOBY) But GOOD. It SOLD MORE THAN WOLF and It was Better...
(Now waiting for the censuring of bad words... Like Endrant and Splash Damage. Bad words)

THIS IS WHY I LEFT WOLFZONE PORTAL... THEY WERE SUPPORTING A HORRIBLE GAME...
Now I haven't/Don't want to post on that portal ANYTHING MORE. This is the same shit story as etqw, JUST WORSE! (THIS GAME DIED IN THE BETA)

CHEERS
=FF=STURM



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:13 pm :
Image



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:50 pm :
"WE DID A GREAT TECHNOLOGY GAME"... Yeah for a 2005 game :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzl_zGo1ams

FUCKIN NOOBS! GTFO



rebb@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:07 pm :
Calm down :|

You're right, it really is a bit of a shame that they are not planning to make the game moddable via SDK, it has some really interesting enhancements added to the old idTech4 core.

Thanks for the video link btw.



goliathvt@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:12 pm :
Not sure where all this craziness is coming from... yah, I get that you're disappointed with the game, but damn...

First off, Splash Damage did a fantastic job with ETQW. That game is more balanced and more intricate than anything that has ever hit the market. Unfortunately, kiddies were far too impatient to sit down and learn the game, leaving only the hardcore gamers at the comp table. Activision also completely dropped the ball with publicity. Where SD, id and Activision all mis-stepped was the release and over-hyping a BETA that many comp players mistook as a finished product.

SD's only real "failure" was running at 30Hz rather than 60 and not having enough experience to tighten up a few of the issues that were problematic at release. However, compared with every other game I played that Fall season, ETQW was the most refined of them all, even with all of its quirks.

Compare the final product of ETQW with Splinter Cell Double Agent or Far Cry 2, for example. SD, in that regard, did a great job.

As for Wolf: Raven did a fine job with the singleplayer. I experienced zero crashes on my PC and saw the most fluid simultaneous multi-body physics I've seen in a game to date. They really did deliver on the idea where you could walk into an apartment with moveables everywhere, hit the Mire ability, and watch as every single item got tossed asunder without dropping a single frame (assuming your system is beefy enough).

Yes, the "consoleitus" of the game is rather blatant. But hardly worth the vitriol you're spouting... especially considering most gamers will install the mods the community here has been building since the game's release.

As for multiplayer, yup, that's a pure fail. That portion of the game should have been held back and released later, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe that's where your anger is directed... but Raven, id and especially SD are hardly proper targets for it.



vertex007@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:43 pm :
that the game isn´t a big succes is no surprise, even though I am enjoying the sp and I think its not that bad at all, it came 1 - 2 years too late to have a bigger impact.
in 2007 it could have had a bigger presence and be a direct contender to let´say Bioshock but at the end of 2009 it is just ok, it does looks and feels dated, gameplay has its high and low but nothing really stands out.
I say take it or leave it but most kiddies nowadays did´t even know about Wolfenstein and don´t give a shit, everybody is waiting for MW2...
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.
I dunno I like it because of the nostalgia and all but at the end of the day I can´t really say well done Raven, this release is lacking...
mp is a bad joke, so I fully understand when people get a bit emotional about that.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:04 pm :
goliathvt wrote:
First off, Splash Damage did a fantastic job with ETQW. That game is more balanced and more intricate than anything that has ever hit the market.


I agree completely. Aside from "teh flaw" (see below) ETQW exceeded my expectations and is a contender for best team-based MP game of all time.

Quote:
Unfortunately, kiddies were far too impatient to sit down and learn the game, leaving only the hardcore gamers at the comp table. Activision also completely dropped the ball with publicity. Where SD, id and Activision all mis-stepped was the release and over-hyping a BETA that many comp players mistook as a finished product.


Activision dropped the ball completely. It was "on purpose" because their eyes were on the release of CoD4. Same story with Q4 and the release of CoD2. I also agree the beta was mis-handled by all three companies but for different reasons IMHO: Firstly, there was no middle-term between a very restricted closed beta composed mostly of friends of SD (I know a few) and clans all of which are either comp or at least ultra-hardcore players and focused too much on tweaking and getting the game to run like the relatively small sample wanted. This was followed by a massive open beta on FilePlanet, FileShack and every other mainstream website which meant it was viewed by players as a demo. This brought two problems:

On one hand, the comp/hardcore's narrow view of the game induced decisions that had little bearing on the comp aspect but hindered accessibility for the last majority of buyers (pub): no VoIP, obsession move speed and map tweaks, downplaying problems with vehicles, etc. (this is from indirect knowledge - feel free to correct me) When the game hit public beta you had a large number of players (50 thousand wasn't it?) that tried a game with little if any anti-lag, clunky vehicles, gameplay options that didn't work well with movement speed, frustrating server browser issues (999 server bug - same one Quake 4 had two years prior) which painted ETQW as a buggy, chaotic mess for mainstream people (BF, TF, CS players).

Instead, there should have been a single beta programme, staggered obviously but gunning for the 5-10 thousand daily ET players. Then have the demo at release date for mainstream gamers. As a software developer myself I'm well aware of the old adage that the most important thing in your product is the last thing to be done but still, for a pure (+ bots) MP game, the fact the anti-lag, movement speed, server browser and network bandwidth wasn't nailed before public beta 1 really shocked me. The public beta helped get VoIP in but sadly not for the all important retail release. Architectural decisions were far too along to be changed after public beta feedback. The SDK came out too late (Source's was previewed to select teams before HL2's release for instance). The die was cast, etc. etc.

EDIT: I also want to add that ETQW was thrust upon the maelstrom of 2007 starting with Bioshock in late August until late Nov with UT3. In between we had Assassin's Creed, The Orange Box, Halo 3, CoD4, Crysis, Gears of War PC, Medal of Honour: Airborne.

IF id already had an established community (like Steam/Blizzard Account/EA Account) they could have sampled from there. But id moves very slowly when it comes to strategic business decisions. I was expecting Quake Live to NOT have an official forums <- only half-kidding here. They seem to be using twitter now (Sokal) but id has to understand games need official community centres and that's a 5-8 year old idea.

Quote:
SD's only real "failure" was running at 30Hz rather than 60 and not having enough experience to tighten up a few of the issues that were problematic at release. However, compared with every other game I played that Fall season, ETQW was the most refined of them all, even with all of its quirks.


Nail + head. The 30Hz really turns me off. I dislike the ADD-driven HUD, the red arrows, the modded pure restarts, and the inconsistent fast movement vs slow tactical functionality (solo-assignment as an example) but those are way, way below the frustration I get with the laggy-uncapped-60fps or the unsmooth-capped-30fps feeling. I sincerely hope Brink won't have this limitation. I can tolerate it in ETQW because it IS such a great game set in the Quake universe. But a whole new IP, going into the market saturated 8 v 8 gameplay with "nothing but"* SMART and player customisation won't have much of a draw.

I hope Bethesda can market the game properly going forward (that "teaser for a trailer of a teaser" didn't really work I thought). Closed QuakeCon sessions seemed a mis-step also.

Quote:
Yes, the "consoleitus" of the game is rather blatant. But hardly worth the vitriol you're spouting... especially considering most gamers will install the mods the community here has been building since the game's release.


I don't have the game but from what I read, hear and see of the game's console slant it seems too far gone that "a few simple mods" could make up for. I went back to the first news about Wolf and came across a discussion about whether the game was coming to the PC at all so it's pretty clear this was a console-centric game.

Quote:
As for multiplayer, yup, that's a pure fail. That portion of the game should have been held back and released later, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe that's where your anger is directed... but Raven, id and especially SD are hardly proper targets for it.


From what I've read, it seems Endrant's major problem was introducing the Veil in MP, most of the (bad) decisions were passed on from 3Wave; I wonder if the creation of Endrant somehow was to protect SD's name because they must have known the MP was going to fail. Like you, I also think id should have put their foot down and delayed the MP down the line (free DLC publicity). I do think the best course of action would have been to change the MP at the 3Wave -> Endrant transition though.

* I'm not dismissing these features, I'm making the case some people out there may put forward.

=FF=Sturm Take it easy; life's too short.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:05 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.


Perhaps because, as reported, they changed from open-city gameplay into a more traditional (for id/Raven) hub-based?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:53 pm :
I do know that the single player part is Very good, but the mp just plain sucks (8 years waiting for a crappy, crappy BUT crappy!!! mod...), even with wolfpro (Just think for a moment, what WILL happen if they don't release the tools?). They are good modders, but without materials you cannot do nothing other than a few changes (hud, defs, scripts, atmospheres and so few more things) and maybe ideas...
Etqw was Overall 'Good', but the 30 hz limitation killed it... I don't know nothing about brink, but i know one of the developers that it's talking about it and I am not getting convinced... It's like a Etqw mod rather than a new one. I also saw a gameplay video leaked somewhere :(
They say fast paced action and you see: Slow motion gameplay with iron sights and camping without leaning. I don't want to know What is Slow paced gameplay to them...
Rtcw was not only famous because of the SP... but the Mp. It was the MOST important thing of it, based on the old TF. (airstrikes, arty,flamethrower,drop ammo,drophealth,dynamite,pliers,syringes...).
Multiplayer ---> Auf wiedersehen http://www.own3d.tv/watch/wolfenstein-d ... 16206.html



parsonsbear@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:01 pm :
I would absolutely love to see a post-mortem of wolfenstein... something went very wrong with the development. I suspect there's no way in hell we'll get an official one, but there's a chance someone involved in it could log in anonymously and give us the scoop.

One interesting note- RTCW was hugely popular on the original XBox, as was Doom3. Maybe they should have just said, gosh, this whole MP thing just isnt coming together, instead of letting the reviewers tear it apart for a half assed new MP, lets just put RTCW on the disk and call it a day. I'd goddamn love to play mp_beach on my 360.

Compare the behind the scenes dev interviews of Wolfenstein and Wolverine- FF-Sturm, that video you linked to has some very interesting body language. The Wolf devs look like they're about to serve us a hamburger that got dropped on the floor because their boss won't let them cook a new one.

RE: ETQW-

It's interesting that SD hasn't released any video of BRINK in motion, considering that's the number one problem with their branch of the engine. Reading the devs in the forums, they're not exactly coming out and saying, yeah that's totally fixed no problem dudes it's buttah.

One thing I will give SD, they're community/official forums are the best, hands down. I really wish id was as open as they used to be/as SD is.

I said it before, i'll say it again, ETQW's main failure was its learning curve. The fact that they just drop you into the action with minimal instruction is INSANE. They should have had an hour long tutorial mode with voiceover, leading you by the hand through several mission scenarios as both races and several classes. I absolutely loved ETQW, but I can't get any of my friends to play it, even though they're superb quake3 players, and love the shit out of RTS games.



vertex007@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 pm :
Mordenkainen wrote:
vertex007 wrote:
something went wrong during development I think because the game lacks that final polish, it has this "rushed" feeling no matter what in comparison to let´s say Q4.


Perhaps because, as reported, they changed from open-city gameplay into a more traditional (for id/Raven) hub-based?


I don´t know ..., the "open city" is still a corridor but thats not the major problem, it is hard to say, at best you experience it yourself but every session I play the game there are always moments where I think yes great !, then 5 minutes later meh ...it is in all the little details, it doesn´t fit, in D3 or Q4 everything fits together, there is no blatant weak point in the whole thing, here is more the case of close but not quite there.
like the project was little too ambitious and at the end they cutted things down shortly to get it done.
I hope Rage is not going to end up like this.
all personal impressions though. ...



Phobos@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:17 pm :
I disagree with the learning curve part, being as etqw had exactly that (videos with voiceovers providing directions of how to use what class for what mission, examples).

Wolf I continue to not be able to support simply because I play the damn game. In all honesty it looks half decent and pretty intriguing if I could get it to run how it should. But the MP? and Q4 mp? And ETQW?

Netcode and 24fps animations. Need i say more? From a semi-pro players' point of view, it's very hard to love a game that runs like the robot of the 80s one high end pc's. This was the case with all 3 games I mentioned. You'd think they'd have improved it substantially or found a workaround in the 5 years the engine has been on the market.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:32 pm :
Phobos wrote:
I disagree with the learning curve part, being as etqw had exactly that (videos with voiceovers providing directions of how to use what class for what mission, examples).


Hmm? There's no such videos in the game, unless you're talking about the console versions? I seem to recall there being a couple more newbie-friendly features in those but my memory is fuzzy. I agree with parsonsbear, the learning curve was a definite factor and SD agreed because patch 1.4 brought loads of features to smooth out the curve, including an offline tutorial and more VO tooltips, mine and APT indicators, etc. Of course, by now ETQW already had a reputation of a complex game. Wolf:ET is a cut above your average team-based game, throw in vehicles, deployables and asymmetric team abilities and a lot of newcomers to objective-driven gameplay were understandably overwhelmed.

Those two tutorial videos from QCon '06 should have been in the game from the start. The full game ought to have two videos for each map explaining the objectives from each team's respective view point. Even Quake 3: Team Arena had videos explaining CTF, One Flag Capture, Harvester, etc. and those game modes were much simpler to grasp. Someone outside the normal day-to-day development with enough perspective should have stepped in and called for it. I don't know if that ever happened but personally many of us did voice concerns about this during the open beta.



parsonsbear@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:04 am :
They have, it's called idTech5, at least in terms of framerate. Very curious to see how they're handling netcode in it- seems they recognize that was an infrastructure thing they just bombed on. (though i've heard id went in and fixed it for Q4)

I wonder how ETQW would have fared without vehicles- I'm honestly one of the people that hated it, and it seems like a lotta the net/physics calcs came from that stuff. I could be way off on that though.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:16 am :
Rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vORM1MC_ ... ture=email

Fuckin noobs once again...
They've got more leaks than the titanic! I can't stop laughing about these kids :twisted: I mean.. If i am going to hack (shit that i don't waste my time on)... I WON'T TELL ANYONE THAT I AM PLANNING IT!
http://oobies.org/smith/smilies/happy/Epic-ROFL.gif

Edit: This made my day :D

Code:
SouthernDemolisher (3 minutes ago)
lmao, i never get banned, because im better than everyone. how do cheaters suck? (and dont say "because they cheat/ they cant play without cheats) and people make money and ENJOY coding.
i think i win.

Another poor daddy that will lost/get banned his Cdkey due to his little kid... yay



Mordenkainen@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:06 am :
NPD have released the top 11-20 list and Wolfenstein (XBOX 360) shows up at #18. Because the Madden Wii sales are 63K units and the PS3 didn't chart in the top 20 it's plausible that the game didn't top 100K units for both consoles (theoretically it could reach ~125K though). :|

EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.



ALien8ed@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:25 am :
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.



vertex007@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:47 am :
ALien8ed wrote:
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.


to repeat myself, the game may be lacking confronted to the high quality standards of past releases but its no way a mediocre title (SP), I think something went wrong with activision and yes they are to blame for the MP part, but Raven do not deserve such poor sales.



jRAD@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:58 am :
Mordenkainen wrote:
From what I've read, it seems Endrant's major problem was introducing the Veil in MP, most of the (bad) decisions were passed on from 3Wave; I wonder if the creation of Endrant somehow was to protect SD's name because they must have known the MP was going to fail.


Splash Damage have nothing to do with Endrant or Wolfenstein MP, other than being the place that a couple of the guys worked before they went off to found their company.

SD learned what Endrant were working on at the same time as everyone else: when it was publicly announced. :)



ALien8ed@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:54 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
ALien8ed wrote:
The latest installment is an embarrassment to the franchise.

Developers do not deserve to be rewarded with high sales figures when they produce such mediocre titles, so in truth they got exactly what they deserved.


to repeat myself, the game may be lacking confronted to the high quality standards of past releases but its no way a mediocre title (SP), I think something went wrong with activision and yes they are to blame for the MP part, but Raven do not deserve such poor sales.


For a AAA title which has been in the works for many years the SP was mediocre IMO. Add to that the disgrace that is the MP portion and it's no surprise this puppy aint selling. Each to their own i guess.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:12 pm :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?



vertex007@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:21 pm :
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:38 pm :
vertex007 wrote:
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated

rofl
I've seen better "games" than this wolf mp (quallity)... and these are mods of WOLFENSTEIN:Enemy territory (FREE!)
http://www.llaumgui.com/public/images/l ... elite2.jpg
http://downloadsource.net/img/5c76cdd31 ... 67.jpg.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2899 ... dtrhg8.jpg

LOOK :D

2008
http://www.juegomania.org/Wolfenstein/f ... nstein.jpg
2009 ?
http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplayer.c ... nstein.jpg

Bye bye to this too :D
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/k ... cility.jpg



Mordenkainen@Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:47 am :
jRAD wrote:
Splash Damage have nothing to do with Endrant or Wolfenstein MP, other than being the place that a couple of the guys worked before they went off to found their company.

SD learned what Endrant were working on at the same time as everyone else: when it was publicly announced. :)


Thanks. I was very surprised to see Wils and Neil leave back then and this means they wanted to do their own thing. Thanks again for the insight.



aardwolf@Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:09 pm :
=FF=Sturm wrote:
vertex007 wrote:
=FF=Sturm wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7gCd-C-Tys

Where is my money?


:lol:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKeQZ2yh ... re=related

:mrgreen:

thats how some EA, Ubi, Activision, microsoft, /you name it, big bosses should be treated

rofl
I've seen better "games" than this wolf mp (quallity)... and these are mods of WOLFENSTEIN:Enemy territory (FREE!)
http://www.llaumgui.com/public/images/l ... elite2.jpg
http://downloadsource.net/img/5c76cdd31 ... 67.jpg.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2899 ... dtrhg8.jpg

LOOK :D

2008
http://www.juegomania.org/Wolfenstein/f ... nstein.jpg
2009 ?
http://www.onlinemassivelymultiplayer.c ... nstein.jpg

Bye bye to this too :D
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/k ... cility.jpg


Yeah, but does anyone play True Combat Elite these days at all?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:46 pm :
Quote:
Yeah, but does anyone play True Combat Elite these days at all?

Now yes... thanks to a "new" update. I am still playing it and it has way more players than wolfenstein mp 2009.
It has an average of +100 players everyday, while wolf:et has more than 5000 (nearly 6000) and rtcw (1.4,1.0,1.33,demo) (the last time i checked it) +400



Kiltron@Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:26 am :
Don't really know what these youngsters are complaining about. Wolfenstein is a fantastic game using the D3 engine just as fun and good as Return To Castle Wolfenstein using the Q3 engine.

In all honesty and I rarely do this or feel this way but I skipped on getting it for the PC and opted for the PS3 version and its great. I'll do the same when Rage comes out cause I won't be dealing with modding it.

Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is a game that just did not look that great on the PS3. Not sure how it looked on PC but the PS3 version was flat and bland looking and the vehicle physics was horrible.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:06 pm :
Kiltron wrote:
Don't really know what these youngsters are complaining about. Wolfenstein is a fantastic game using the D3 engine just as fun and good as Return To Castle Wolfenstein using the Q3 engine.

these youngsters fails :D
I remember the times when I played with 64 players at beach, the coodination, the mature and stuff (was not as CS, when (on that time) everyone went rambo with a desert eagle)
Rtcw had a great atmosphere /sp/ and one of the best multiplayers ever made (Based a little bit on Team fortress... But even more addictive).
On the other hand, Doom 3 had a great atmosphere (not only as a game, but when you mix some rtcw atmos music with doom 3 or viceversa it feels excellent!).
This new wolf is just a (Moh + Cod + Quake 4 with the name of wolfenstein). Of course this doesn't mean its bad (single player), Right now It's the Second best Singleplayer game using Id tech 4... But the multiplayer is a JOKE :|
__________________________________________________________________
Also, I found a bug in the singleplayer of this new "Wolf"
When you start at the train station... well, i saw some trailers and gameplay before.
And if i am not wrong, it was SUPPOSSED to start with the travel of the train OUT of THE CITY! just Like Half life, looking to all the enviroment... but wow, there isnt nothing but a shit break between the cutscene and the train station.
You can check this by looking to some trailers (gameplay and interviews)

http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gam ... ?ch=1&sd=1

the 4th stop:
the story revealed



pbmax@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:04 pm :
Mordenkainen wrote:
EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.


I wonder how many millions of dollars were lost on this game and who takes the biggest hit? id, Raven or Activision?



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:26 pm :
pbmax wrote:
Mordenkainen wrote:
EDIT: Gamespot has an article about Wolfenstein NPD Aug numbers: 106K units for all three platforms (89K for consoles + previously reported 17K for PC); worse than I was expecting.


I wonder how many millions of dollars were lost on this game and who takes the biggest hit? id, Raven or Activision?

nothing... they made the textures in paint



parsonsbear@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:41 pm :
I'm guessing Activision takes the majority of risk. id/Raven got paid to develop it, atvi laid out for marketing and development costs.

But they're printing money, so it's not a huge deal to them. id moved on, left a crummy situation behind. Raven probably took the biggest hit- maybe they didn't lose money, but if this was a big success they probably wouldn't have had to layoff 30% of their employees. Of course, Endrant don't exist at all anymore...

Lets be civil here- lots of talented people worked really hard on this game. In many ways its the best looking idTech4 release so far. The artists at Raven did a great job, and don't deserve the blame for upper level decisions.



vertex007@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:39 pm :
this game must be really a disaster in financial terms, not only the general poor sales but now this:

http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/2 ... y?from=rss

can you immagine how many units are being taken back and ---burned/destroyed ?

and apparently just for this http://www.schnittberichte.com/www/SBs/ ... /haken.jpg

OMG ...I guess "kein kommentar"

parsonsbear wrote:
I'm guessing Activision takes the majority of risk. id/Raven got paid to develop it, atvi laid out for marketing and development costs.

But they're printing money, so it's not a huge deal to them. id moved on, left a crummy situation behind. Raven probably took the biggest hit- maybe they didn't lose money, but if this was a big success they probably wouldn't have had to layoff 30% of their employees. Of course, Endrant don't exist at all anymore...

Lets be civil here- lots of talented people worked really hard on this game. In many ways its the best looking idTech4 release so far. The artists at Raven did a great job, and don't deserve the blame for upper level decisions.


True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.



=FF=Sturm@Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:00 pm :
Quote:
True, the saddest thing though is that this will very probably end up being the last Wolfenstein game ever.

As far as i know, id software said that they are going to make Doom, Quake, Rage and wolf series INHOUSE, so i presume that they are going to do more wolfensteins.



GUInterface@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:56 am :
I'm assuming they'll probably reboot the series once again. Still, I hope they don't if they ever make another one.



Mordenkainen@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 pm :
Epic have put the Unreal Tournament games to sleep for a while after the disappointing results of UT3. From what we know thus far, it does seem like Wolfie is in the same ballpark so it wouldn't be a bad idea to follow Epic on this one. Trouble is, Quake 4 and ETQW weren't exactly smash hits either (though certainly better than Wolfie) leaving id with two main properties to work with, one of them being Rage which is brand new.

Although risky, there's nothing inherently wrong with few IPs just as long as id can pump out games within 2 years (look at Epic, IW, etc.). I wouldn't mind a new Rage or DOOM game very two years. Company size isn't even a problem. Rockstar had over 500 people work on GTA4 (the often quoted "1000" figure accounts for people that worked on but left before the game shipped, so let's halve that) and even if the majority is from the publishing arm of the company that still leaves them with a size comparable to id. IW also has over a hundred people.



pbmax@Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:57 pm :
what a pain it must be to sift thru 1,000's of textures and edit swatikas out.



parsonsbear@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:51 am :
@pbmax- actually it's a pretty simple computer vision problem to find shapes like that in an image. Someone could have just written a small program to find them and automatically blur them out. On the other hand, they knew that was going to be a problem going into it, and should have been minding their p's and q's the whole way through.



Dafama2k7@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:49 am :
I fully agree with =FF=Sturm !!!


I hope also that the NEW RAGE and Doom 4 games are developed by Id soft. experts and NOT by Third Party developers, that are good, but not get the amazing Id soft. feel, original, amazing awesome games like Doom 3 (BEST of the BEST !!!), and also not being able to create MODS for Wolfy is the worst thing to me, definitely i will NOT going to buy a game without SDK, editor and things like that, also, i want the easy of use to create good mods that it had Doom 3 !!!

Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.

Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(



AnthonyJa@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:16 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Raven did this worst thing on Quake 4 also, not being able to modify the scripts with easy, or even see them, the most part of them where only on the .dll libraryes, not on the scripts folder, like before, i know for sure that it will be a whole lot more of mods (and because of this, much more units sold !) if that game allowed the users to create mods in the same easy to use way and good support as in Doom 3 (the most successfully sold Id game to date !), because this let the users without the higher required SDK knowledges to create smaller mods for Quake 4.


I guess you'll be disappointed with Rage then - if you watched Carmack's keynote at quakecon this year, you'd know that he believes it was a mistake to make so much scripted in D3, and that for Rage they will be going back to more C++ code.

I fully approve of this change of philosophy, having seen how much the scripts file hurt the performance of the whole engine, and since performance is one of its biggest issues, I agree with the fix.



Chr1s@Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:53 pm :
Dafama2k7 wrote:
Now, all this worst bad things happened again with the new 2k9 Wolfenstein game, but even worse, its just a Copy & Paste ugly Console translation to PC and even bad without even at least experts only SDK support, oh, why Raven ¿??? :(


One word, Activision.

Other words, I personally blame most of the crap with them, not got time to go in depth (at work) but ultimately they were in control of game afaik.