Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

chuckdood wrote:

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

Ha - similar here, just tried to obtain the iPad SDK but I don't have snow leopard...
I was looking so much forward to some prototyping work and playing with the iPad simulator.

Not sure what to make of this gizmo. I hear its not going to run flash? That sounds like something that will kill it for many people. If their aiming for a more casual market, then why would you not include something that many of these users will need to surf net with? No flash = no face book apps or you tube right? Thats a major blow. Better off with one of those cheap 200-300 mini laptops selling in stores now.

The next problem is their selling it as an e-reader too. But once again its not running adobe's e-reader app which is used in many places. Apple has their own plans for this market like they did with itunes. they are starting to get greedy now.

I was interested in the ipad as an alternative to touch screen moniters for doing graphics. The Ipad not running flash viewer, or adobe's e-reader app leads me to believe that seeing photoshop, illustrator or flash will not happen on it. I would instead to learn and use a new app, which one shouldn't have to do. So now its a waste for me to even think about it.

Not having flash is a showstopper if you want "the best browsing experience" on a mobile device.

But for many sites (Youtube is the perfect example) there are apps that allow you to access content without resorting to flash or the browser at all.
Other sites detect mobile devices and display a flash-less version of the page with basically the same functionality.

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

They dont support flash because flash is buggy, crap, and everyone is moving to HTML5 anyways. And because google wants to kill the iphone. :wink:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

evilartist wrote:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

Better now than never

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Burrito wrote:

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Yeah, saw it - thanks for the link.

As an afterthought I would remove "no flash support" from my con list.
I've used my iPhone for two years really intensive and never there was a point when the lack of flash did not allow me a "rich" web experience. Quite the difference, without flash I experienced less annoying ads or 5mb website header graphics of awsomness

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

chuckdood wrote:

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

Ha - similar here, just tried to obtain the iPad SDK but I don't have snow leopard...
I was looking so much forward to some prototyping work and playing with the iPad simulator.

Not sure what to make of this gizmo. I hear its not going to run flash? That sounds like something that will kill it for many people. If their aiming for a more casual market, then why would you not include something that many of these users will need to surf net with? No flash = no face book apps or you tube right? Thats a major blow. Better off with one of those cheap 200-300 mini laptops selling in stores now.

The next problem is their selling it as an e-reader too. But once again its not running adobe's e-reader app which is used in many places. Apple has their own plans for this market like they did with itunes. they are starting to get greedy now.

I was interested in the ipad as an alternative to touch screen moniters for doing graphics. The Ipad not running flash viewer, or adobe's e-reader app leads me to believe that seeing photoshop, illustrator or flash will not happen on it. I would instead to learn and use a new app, which one shouldn't have to do. So now its a waste for me to even think about it.

Not having flash is a showstopper if you want "the best browsing experience" on a mobile device.

But for many sites (Youtube is the perfect example) there are apps that allow you to access content without resorting to flash or the browser at all.
Other sites detect mobile devices and display a flash-less version of the page with basically the same functionality.

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

They dont support flash because flash is buggy, crap, and everyone is moving to HTML5 anyways. And because google wants to kill the iphone. :wink:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

evilartist wrote:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

Better now than never

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Burrito wrote:

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Yeah, saw it - thanks for the link.

As an afterthought I would remove "no flash support" from my con list.
I've used my iPhone for two years really intensive and never there was a point when the lack of flash did not allow me a "rich" web experience. Quite the difference, without flash I experienced less annoying ads or 5mb website header graphics of awsomness

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

chuckdood wrote:

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

Ha - similar here, just tried to obtain the iPad SDK but I don't have snow leopard...
I was looking so much forward to some prototyping work and playing with the iPad simulator.

Not sure what to make of this gizmo. I hear its not going to run flash? That sounds like something that will kill it for many people. If their aiming for a more casual market, then why would you not include something that many of these users will need to surf net with? No flash = no face book apps or you tube right? Thats a major blow. Better off with one of those cheap 200-300 mini laptops selling in stores now.

The next problem is their selling it as an e-reader too. But once again its not running adobe's e-reader app which is used in many places. Apple has their own plans for this market like they did with itunes. they are starting to get greedy now.

I was interested in the ipad as an alternative to touch screen moniters for doing graphics. The Ipad not running flash viewer, or adobe's e-reader app leads me to believe that seeing photoshop, illustrator or flash will not happen on it. I would instead to learn and use a new app, which one shouldn't have to do. So now its a waste for me to even think about it.

Not having flash is a showstopper if you want "the best browsing experience" on a mobile device.

But for many sites (Youtube is the perfect example) there are apps that allow you to access content without resorting to flash or the browser at all.
Other sites detect mobile devices and display a flash-less version of the page with basically the same functionality.

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

They dont support flash because flash is buggy, crap, and everyone is moving to HTML5 anyways. And because google wants to kill the iphone. :wink:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

evilartist wrote:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

Better now than never

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Burrito wrote:

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Yeah, saw it - thanks for the link.

As an afterthought I would remove "no flash support" from my con list.
I've used my iPhone for two years really intensive and never there was a point when the lack of flash did not allow me a "rich" web experience. Quite the difference, without flash I experienced less annoying ads or 5mb website header graphics of awsomness

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

chuckdood wrote:

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

Ha - similar here, just tried to obtain the iPad SDK but I don't have snow leopard...
I was looking so much forward to some prototyping work and playing with the iPad simulator.

Not sure what to make of this gizmo. I hear its not going to run flash? That sounds like something that will kill it for many people. If their aiming for a more casual market, then why would you not include something that many of these users will need to surf net with? No flash = no face book apps or you tube right? Thats a major blow. Better off with one of those cheap 200-300 mini laptops selling in stores now.

The next problem is their selling it as an e-reader too. But once again its not running adobe's e-reader app which is used in many places. Apple has their own plans for this market like they did with itunes. they are starting to get greedy now.

I was interested in the ipad as an alternative to touch screen moniters for doing graphics. The Ipad not running flash viewer, or adobe's e-reader app leads me to believe that seeing photoshop, illustrator or flash will not happen on it. I would instead to learn and use a new app, which one shouldn't have to do. So now its a waste for me to even think about it.

Not having flash is a showstopper if you want "the best browsing experience" on a mobile device.

But for many sites (Youtube is the perfect example) there are apps that allow you to access content without resorting to flash or the browser at all.
Other sites detect mobile devices and display a flash-less version of the page with basically the same functionality.

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

They dont support flash because flash is buggy, crap, and everyone is moving to HTML5 anyways. And because google wants to kill the iphone. :wink:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

evilartist wrote:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

Better now than never

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Burrito wrote:

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Yeah, saw it - thanks for the link.

As an afterthought I would remove "no flash support" from my con list.
I've used my iPhone for two years really intensive and never there was a point when the lack of flash did not allow me a "rich" web experience. Quite the difference, without flash I experienced less annoying ads or 5mb website header graphics of awsomness

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

chuckdood wrote:

i really hate how apple's SDKs for their mobile units require the latest OS. nothing works with Tiger anymore...

Ha - similar here, just tried to obtain the iPad SDK but I don't have snow leopard...
I was looking so much forward to some prototyping work and playing with the iPad simulator.

Not sure what to make of this gizmo. I hear its not going to run flash? That sounds like something that will kill it for many people. If their aiming for a more casual market, then why would you not include something that many of these users will need to surf net with? No flash = no face book apps or you tube right? Thats a major blow. Better off with one of those cheap 200-300 mini laptops selling in stores now.

The next problem is their selling it as an e-reader too. But once again its not running adobe's e-reader app which is used in many places. Apple has their own plans for this market like they did with itunes. they are starting to get greedy now.

I was interested in the ipad as an alternative to touch screen moniters for doing graphics. The Ipad not running flash viewer, or adobe's e-reader app leads me to believe that seeing photoshop, illustrator or flash will not happen on it. I would instead to learn and use a new app, which one shouldn't have to do. So now its a waste for me to even think about it.

Not having flash is a showstopper if you want "the best browsing experience" on a mobile device.

But for many sites (Youtube is the perfect example) there are apps that allow you to access content without resorting to flash or the browser at all.
Other sites detect mobile devices and display a flash-less version of the page with basically the same functionality.

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

They dont support flash because flash is buggy, crap, and everyone is moving to HTML5 anyways. And because google wants to kill the iphone. :wink:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

evilartist wrote:

revility wrote:

they are starting to get greedy now.

"Now," he says.

Better now than never

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Burrito wrote:

BNA! wrote:

Burrito wrote:

This is the end of Flash, not the end of devices that don't support it.

Only few can see that.

http://gizmodo.com/5528936/the-h264-encoding-boom

Yeah, saw it - thanks for the link.

As an afterthought I would remove "no flash support" from my con list.
I've used my iPhone for two years really intensive and never there was a point when the lack of flash did not allow me a "rich" web experience. Quite the difference, without flash I experienced less annoying ads or 5mb website header graphics of awsomness

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558

Just in case you've been living under a rock, Apple yesterday revealed it's new devide called iPad.

Some say it's a feature stripped but overblown iPhone, others say it's only an overblown iPod Touch (which is claimed to simply be a downstripped iPhone, but the phone itself is believed to be an overblown iPod Touch - talk about HOM effects in the financial analyst and fanboy world).

I say it's cool. When I got the iPhone it came as the greatest surprise that I simply stopped booting up my laptop, on the road as much as at home (unless there's a reason for it like working through various Excel sheets).
If someone would have told me I'll prefer to browse the web and watch occasional vids on a handheld device I would have sent him straight to hospital.

I'm not fully down with the specs of the iPad, but it's using homegrown Apple silicon for processing and an iPhone OS derivative. Applications come from the App store and well, I don't have to expand on that further.

EA showcased games and despite the limited gfx power things look good to me, especially the usage of the iPad itself as steering wheel in racing games.
As an avid reader I look forward to permanently carry my shelf of reference books with me and the docking stand with external keyboard makes it not less interesting.
I wish Apple would upgrade their iMacs to "Touch" and deliver a 30' version...
Why the pad does not come with the ability to video conference however will remain a mystery to me. Not even a camera is included. There's people saying "who would want to make pictures with it" and the majority of shortsighted people agree, all the rest think "damn, another cool device we cannot use to scan barcodes and comfortably manage items because they forgot the 5 USD photo cam".
Unlike Steve Jobs I'm not related to any god(s), so as a mere mortal I'll have to wait for someone to write me the Enlightment2.0 app why the business market is ignored again by simply making basic features unavailable (perhaps these cheap built in cams need to get manufactured with Unobtainium nowadays).

I know there's a plethora of additional shortcomings too - the case is still not made of Adamntium or Unobtanium, Time Travel may or may not come later as an external App for 0,99 USD, the external keyboard is not internal and again nobody invented a 24 inch device which fits into a 5 inch pockets (people should start picking fashion people to increase the size of pockets instead).

I'd really like to see someone to come up with a mapping program for the iPad, just to test and find out how good or if such a concept could work. I have no doubts about gaming (if you can steer a FPS character along with an odd gaming button pressing joypad, you can control it with anything from a stick to brainwaves).

I'm gone to download the SDK now and see if I can participate in the new goldrush - I suggest you do the same

Not in any way trying to spoil your fun, I decided to share my own 2 cents about this anyway.

To me it's another gadget in the long line of mediocre gadgets that Apple has released, and it has flaws like any other gadget that it has released. It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

What gets me is the marketing strategy that Apple uses, which when compared to any other company out there employs the most manipulative form of advertising, evangelism marketing, it used proven ideas of nationalism and religion backed up by a rich marketing machine in trying to create a cult, very much like a sports club does (we are the best and if you don't own our product you are a loser, that whole with us or against us mentality). I'm reminded of this analysis that came from here: http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/02/ ... art-1.html it was written nearly 3 years ago but still rings true.

Quote:

Evangelism marketing is an advanced form of word of mouth marketing (WOMM) in which companies develop customers who believe so strongly in a particular product or service that they freely try to convince others to buy and use it. The customers become voluntary advocates, actively spreading the word on behalf of the company. Evangelism literally comes from the three words of 'bringing good news' and the marketing term justly draws from the religious sense, as consumers are literally driven by their beliefs in a product or service, which they preach in an attempt to convert others.

Guy Kawasaki, an ex-Apple-employee, is credited as being one of the first to use evangelistic methods to promote a computer brand, focusing on creating passionate user-advocates for the Apple brand. Apple formerly had a "Why Mac?" evangelist websites. The page no longer exists, but the company currently has a Get a Mac campaign page, which gives numerous reasons why PC users should switch to Macs. Kawasaki has recently switched from using Macs to using Linux, because he's disappointed in the route that Apple has taken. This could be interpreted, that Apple has become a just another regular technology-company and perhaps it was all lust from the start.

By way of artificially raising the prizes and using several targeted campaigns to reach cult status, about half of the people that I know that own a certain Apple product feel somehow different and more special that those that don't; it happens as soon as they buy the Apple product (not people that merely own an Ipod but those that buy a notebook or mac PC). When I ask them about it and compare functionality between theirs and other gadgets (which I often do as I like such discussions) I often get somewhat silly responses, very defensive and secret as if 'I wouldn't get it unless I'd own a Mac'. And usually it's not arguments that praise the strength of the Apple product itself, no they prey on weaknesses of other products, arguments like 'This particular thing of the IPod is much better than that particular thing on your Creative player'. I don't want to hear that, I want to hear what makes an Apple product GOOD, not what makes other products look BAD in comparison. Most often I miss functionality in these products that other products have standard or I would take for granted.

This campaign comes to mind instantly:

The real kicker is that they present these products as new and never before seen, as if there hadn't been a legion of alternatives to the Ipod before (that were arguably better), it's like their memory was wiped and their Apple product was the first in memory. Then usually after several sentences the discussion turns around on me, being accused of being a 'Microsoft nerd' or Apple hater (even though I'm very much not for or against either company, just for and against some of the methods that both companies employ).

When I look at the tablet itself I'm seeing a product that IBM introduced nearly 5 years ago, and the IBM had more and better functionality and specifications than this product. I'm seeing yet another very much over hyped marketing campaign doing it's job, it's either an I-phone with a rather large screen or a laptop with a very small screen, not the technological savior that will make our lives easier.

Sorry for the negative post, but it's how I see (perhaps through) Apple and their products.

The reason why I've always owned a PC instead of a Mac: A PC does everything a Mac does at a fraction of the price(also in many cases it does more, and has a bigger list of compatible software)

The reason why I own a Creative Labs MP3 player instead of an Ipod: Same as above, it does everything an Ipod does plus more at a fraction of the cost of an Ipod.

It just doesn't seem reasonable to me to fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money. I don't know about any cult or whatever, a heck of a lot of people I know in real life own Ipods simply because they; like most people aren't all that tech-savy so they just get what everyone else gets because they have no clue what's good and what isn't. If the Apple people are a cult they're not a very good one, cults by definition have to be somewhat exclusive, it's a self-defeating concept to conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again.

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

.

I don't think you got the grasp of what I was saying, to clarify:

BloodRayne wrote:

It's clear that Apple is trying to recover from being a scary cult, but despite that I somehow never end up buying their products, there's always one thing wrong with them that makes me decide not to buy them even though I keep considering them whenever I need something new (not wanting to close off any options).

So every time an Apple product comes into the comparison it falls short for me, that has nothing to do with my views on their marketing campaign, that's an observation not relating to the way I choose which products to buy. No sense then to raise this as an argument.

An example on why my choice did not fall on this gadget, the 3G version will only be released in America, it does not support Flash (at all), it does not have Multitasking, it needs lots of adapters if you want to hook something on it, it has a 4:3 ratio, and the worst, only Apps from the store work on it...which makes it useless for me, considering I try to use GPL software as much as possible.

Apple products are designed with much care. They are build from only the best materials with the best engineering there is. Only holding an Apple product in my hand for the first time makes me smile because its a product of the work of the best people in their field pushed to their max with one vision: Be elegant. Also the software side plays a big part in this and apple knows and cares about it.

Something like the iPhone was unthinkable four years ago and now that people are used to it they complain about the iPad like spoiled children.

The iPad certainly isn't magical, or the next step...its just another tool like a smartphone and a laptop. Another tool for another situation.

I can't stop thinking about my elderly parents when thinking about the iPad. They hate computers...they can't really use a mouse correctly. You get it, probably they were born before trains were invented...maybe the iPad is for them? I certainly will check out this possibility.

Btw, the only Apple product i own is an iPod 5G. And i wrote this on my Win7 PC in Firefox - i can't stand MacOS and i don't think that lying on the couch with a MacBook in your lap is a good way to browse the web.

The world isn't black and white...use what you want when it makes sense...or don't.

BNA! wrote:

It's funny to see how people come up with reasons to limit themselves into a niche

I personally couldn't care less about evangelism in marketing.
But I have great fun using my Apple stuff, even if in many cases I run windows on them to maintain compatibility with the corporate world.

I also don't mind the price difference. I buy a set up every x years and welcome ANY evolutionary effort to reduce cables. Private and in my company I run a wide variety of set ups and based on all in cost calculation, depreciation, follow up cost for training and maintenance the MACs come out far cheaper for me. Future uprade cycles therefore will be Apple centric (assuming they stay on the current course). For other corporations this will be different of course.

I've alway been a die hard PC person to the point of rejecting MACs for nothing but the people who I associate with them as typical users, but for those willing to read before they post reflexive negative replies - the differences in usability came as the greatest surprise to me.

To each it's own, I'm fine with that, but I'm disappointed the replies focus on what people think it's uncool in Apple instead of how to utilize new media displays and interfaces. I didn't know the site did degrade to hardware fanboyism or "chose your camp".

And for people earning their mony by tattooing others - consider what you really say down to the core of it's meaning if you critisize to "fork out extra amounts of my hard earned dollars for a fashionable, trendy name, and that's all you get for the extra money". You make a living by allowing people to "conform to a non-conformist group, they all end up being the same again".
I can see your point that you give a rats ass how a computer looks as long as the performance is good, but as a person earning money by crafting totally useless images (beyond eye pleasing or saving your ass in jail as a gang member) on peoples skins you should be able to attribute some value to the sheer merits of design.

Again, a new game centric hardware device will be in the hands of millions soon. If you're not interested in exploiting this platform and adapting to the underlying trend developments, then fine, but don't complain you haven't been warned about the decrease in pc importance.

Good morning BNA(I'm not sure what time it is in Germany, It's morning here, I'm probably off a few hours I'm certain.. but greetings; just the same)

I think you may have misunderstood me, maybe I didn't word it right. Primarily I was responding to the "cult link post" and not specifically to you.

I did not mean to imply that I was "anti-Apple", or that I never will furnish dollars towards owning any sort Apple product in the future, nor did I intend to insult anyone's private tastes or sense of judgement(I sincerely hope that no one feels that I have). As far as merits of design go... I don't know what a lot of them are too well (I haven't really read up on specs and stuff too much as of yet) so I really can't knock it. I was simply stating reasons why in the past that I have strayed from purchasing certain Apple products, and how from a viewpoint of functionality I couldn't see it as a justifiable purchase when I could get the same(or even better in some instances) functionality for less. As far "cool factor" goes though I probably will buy an Iphone someday when my finances permit, I've been wanting a all-in-one device instead of having three different gadgets for phone, music, and camera, and the touch screen and design are just simply too cool to pass up in my opinion. I did not mean to sound like I was shutting the door on anything, perhaps I was too hasty in stating my criticisms without properly explaining them.

...and Yes, you are quite correct my livelihood is a useless novelty, I would have been the first to admit it if asked, I do not have to be told. Especially around the holiday season I really feel just how much of a novelty it really is. Despite that, I am very proud of the fact that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth and I have been able to rise up out of my condition and build my own business/livelihood out of nothing, and I did it all legally and legitimately(I point that out because most people from my particular social class usually only achieve what I have by ill means). It may be a novelty but it has kept my family and I fed for what will soon be almost two decades. The man who I apprenticed for in the beginning has managed to stay busy for forty years now, not too bad for a useless craft huh?

I don't really understand what you mean by your question. So you are saying that since I provide and get paid for a frivolous product that I should be more grateful for my situation and show more empathy or be more sympathetic towards others who provide and get paid for products of a similar nature? Anyone who works as an any sort of artist is working and making a living out of a useless unnecessary trade correct? That would include musicians, game developers, film producers, actors, among others. So I guess I'm being an ungrateful tightwad when I fork out an extra 50 bucks here or there for a video game, or movie, or music? One of the main reasons why I am so anti-piracy is because I feel like I am "giving back" when I support a fellow artist, but then again maybe I don't count as an artist in some peoples eyes...oh well, I get paid just the same regardless.

I actually find it kind insulting that you would make any assumptions about who I am in my career, I have been doing it long before there were TV shows, documentaries, and Tattoo "rock stars". I didn't enter into it with aspirations to be a "TV star", I'm not a performance artist like Kat Von Dee. When I was fresh in the business only a certain kind of person got tattooed, it belonged to a subculture comprised of convicts, drunken military personal, bikers, and basic all-around social deviants. You have no idea the kind of pressure that I have thrived under. At the second shop I worked at my old boss kept the "help wanted" sign up for three years after he hired me... why? Because he was a mercenary bastard, I only had the job until he found someone better. It took more hard work than you will ever know to survive as long as I have in such a dog eat dog business as what I'm in. I sure as Hell didn't just ride in the crest of recent popularity, I have went through literal Hell to get where I am, please don't discredit that.

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

I have no interest in it like I have no interest in a fancy music player or a fancy wireless phone ($10 tracfone for the win!

)...

BUT...

my dad got an ipod touch for christmas '08 & it was nice to hold & use (but can't use a pen device? How LAME!), but still no interest in it (in comparison, I enjoy milking goats, and I'm sure most people would if they tried, but they don't...)

It looks cool, I like the touch screen aspect. Is it multi-touch (haven't looked in to it)? I don't see it revolutionary but I do see it like the Wii & DS: making developers think about consumer interface vs just assuming everyone has a keyboard. IMHO all computers should be touch screen by now, especially with Windows 7. MS put out the biggest "this is AWESOME *AND* USEFUL!" feature for mainstream PC's & it's getting very little, if any, public fanfare. On the physical device side, I put my stuff through a LOT of abuse. If something isn't accidentally hit during a day it's because I was nowhere near it. I have no desire to pay for something & replace it in the near future: I haven't upgraded my quad core in 2 years, I still have a simple Palm Z22 PDA (same model for ~4 years now), I'm only looking for a new car because I need a bigger one. New feature don't entice me unless it's something I'm planning on buying (so I don't replace for features) and with use-specific hardware like apple's stuff (even if their computers ARE multiuse, that's not what comes to mind when I think of them, I'd say because of marketing) I need a REALLY good reason to buy it. IE I see myself getting more use out of my $500 chainsaw then I would the ipad. That's just me.

While the gaming aspect looks neat, how would I play Doom 3 on it? By touching the screen? Good question imo. the DS has a seperate screen for the movement & one for the visuals. Would this be done the same way? Would love to see how that is tackled! More intesting then the tech.

But as with all current tech, it's looking cooler @ doing the exact same thing as years ago. when we get something like this:
http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-con ... /padd1.gif
THAT will be impressive (something that does almost anything w/o being tied town to a specific piece of hardware/software or company)

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

I'm not sure I stressed the shortcomings enough:
- no Flash support (how can they call it the best browsing experience ever if I can't watch the majority of embedded videos on websites)
- no multitasking
- no USB or otherwise external data source input (or play and record a guitar right into it)
- no video conference support
- no cam at all
- all custom applications have to go through the official Apple channel (it's also an upside considering the wealth of malware people voluntarily install on their win boxes)
- no exchangeable battery
- no phone / sms functionality

However, I'd love to see publishers targeting mags and books for the iPad format, including interactive parts like videos or graphics.
They could have done that a decade ago with simple websites, but I assume this failed due to the all for free character of the web.

Surprisingly I have less desire to own it rather than develop applications for it exploiting the touchscreen functionality. I did some prototyping for iPhone applications which may come in handy in my business. It's more a fullrime occupation, so I doubt anything will ever see daylight. But you never know, maybe I'll get something up and running which aids me as much as others.

I think it's unfortunate to focus it so much on the consumer side. I had to spend some time in hospital recently and found it odd that the medic personnel of all ranks still carries around obscenely large chunks of paper folders containing the medical history intead of having tablet style devices. The same is true for salespeople in electronic markets where 10 guy fight for the sole ancient pc to access their logistics database.

Electronic picture frames often sell for 100 bucks with no functionality whatsoever and a storage capacity not worthy to be called storage or capacity.
E-readers manage to get you a good representation of print, but severely lack basics like color or web browsing.

My personal wishes for having a one device does almost all thing are sufficiently delivered with what the iPad has to offer.
I was sneaking around netbooks for a long time, but I found no reason to replace my 13' laptop. But I can see an iPad fitting between my laptop and the iphone.
But I can also see 500 € to stay put on my bank account

And as far as design goes - I just like the Apple stuff more than the boxy towers surrounding me for 20 years now.

Deadite4 wrote:

I'm not an apple fan for various reasons, but I give them credit on some of their items, which in all honestly, have made a major impact on the market.

That said, the hot topic on the ipad(that i've read) is its inability to multi-task. Is it really true that if your listening to music you can't surf the web? or if your working on a spreadsheet you can't have open any other document? That seems like a major shortcoming if correct.

No, on the iPhone you can run the iPod functionality alongside other applications.
As far as spreadsheet editing and having another doc open works will have to be seen - so far all applications I've seen run fullscreen.

BNA! wrote:

CrimsonHead wrote:

...

Coming down unapologetic to the core of my reply - you wrote you don't see any additional value in an Apple product other than it's sleekier design / brand and name and it therefore does not deserve any USD pricing on top for that.
That means you, not me, have devaluated design and arts down to the point where you feel insulted (by yourself).

I have great admiration for artists, may they craft electronic devices or stitch tattoos, you're getting upset about your own downgrade of value which is incorporated in the meaning of design. You are the one who questions the value of design, or beauty, or artistry, not me.

The restate it unmistakeably clear - I have great admiration for artists and designers and I am willing to pay for music, paintings, tattoos (if I ever will want one), cars... and of course electronic devices which make my life better and my living room less cramped with cables. This means I am defending your profession against criticism and albeit I do so there is nothing better you can do than walk up and feel insulted because I support the value of arts and design in everydays and everyones life?

Your backfiring does not make any sense at all.

Too bad STILL no one has any interest in discussing a new piece of popular hardware which will have a major impact on gaming.

Sorry to backfire, it's just what you say that you just said and what you wrote in the original post sound like two very different things to me. Maybe I am just misinterpreting you, sometimes a person can hear something different than what is actually said. If that is the case then I apologize, sorry for the derailment on the topic I will not do it again.

edit// In response to the actual topic I was watching a few videos of the Ipad, it looks like they are on to something. I can see how it will replace the notebook for a lot of people. I wouldn't mind having one to carry my portfolio around in actually, it would also be great for all my Ebooks. I have been looking at Ebook readers, this really blows them out of the water. I wonder if you can hook up a MS/Xbox gamepad to it? I couldn't find anything about any USB ports but I'm sure they wouldn't overlook something like that.

I can see how that would come in very handy at work for me, I'd be worried about the toughness of the screen and letting customers handle it. I've thought about getting a touchscreen monitor with a PC displaying an HTML page with my bio and portfolio pics and then putting it on the front desk for customers to browse. The only thing that has kept me from it is the worry that some hapless fool would scratch the screen or damage it somehow.

I actually am sorry that I just jumped in and responded to the "cult" link without even really checking out your link at first. I think that I subconsciously disregarded it as soon as saw the "I" in "Ipad". I should have known that you wouldn't make a thread about it if it wasn't something cool and revolutionary.

From what little I've seen of the Ipad. It's pretty much useless. It's weaker than a netbook, and I really can't see what you're supposed to use it for? I don't particularly care to read books on a screen. And it's not strong enough to use as a tablet with Photoshop. Then it's somehow supposed to be used for writing? A touch screen keyboard? Seriously. As someone who doesn't stare at my hands while writing, I kinda need my tactile feedback.

I read in BNA's post taht you could attach a keyboard to it. But then I wonder, why not just buy a net/notebook? They are more powerful and from what I've gathered they got more screen space. Plus they don't run any kind of Mac software. (I've used a lot of Macs in my days and one thing I've come to realize. I really don't like their OS)

Oh heh, yeah. About Bloodrayne's reference to cultism. :p
http://www.applegeeks.com/

Hey Crimson, no need for you to apologize!

You take your profession seriously and passionatly, just the way everyone should. That's something I like a lot. Even if I would have meant to insult you I would have fully respected to take a backfire hit.

I am a little disappointed people here don't take up the idea of the general evolution in mobile computing. Most discussions are stuck in consoles vs pc gaming, not noticing how Apple sneaks in by providing something that can get considered the console of computing.

All the time the majority of self proclaimed tech savy users have look down on everything Apple as sucky overpriced stuff with pretty colors. I say the early Mac crowd was somewhat begging to get treated this way.

I my lifetime there have been a few keypoints where I really noticed the impact of new technology. It was video recorders, the Sony Walkman, cable TV, widespread availability of the pc, the telefax, affordable mobile phones, DVDs, permanent internet access, broadband, gaming consoles (first Atari then 2 decades later the playstation), iPod, BlackBerry and mosz recently the iPhone. The latter one had the same distinct impact as the fax, mobile phones, gaming consoles, BlackBerry, iPod and permanent broadband internet access alltogether.

I would have made any bet something as odd as the iPhone would never do anything for me, it was nothing but a too large overpriced phone with insufficient battery lifetime. But when they made the SDK available and I saw Q3 running on it I was totally sold on a logic basis. The whole appstore thing has outgrown my own expectations and I expect interesting things to come in the future. This will be even more true when the competition steps up with own devices. I just hope one product will be distinctly cool enough to win me fully - I'd hate not to have one or worse, to own two competitive products out of indecision (and absent brain).

In any case I'm sure the landscape of mobile devices will change dramatically over the next 5 years and these devices will change the landscape itself.

Who knows, maybe we'll come as far as holodecks before I retire, but if so I'm sure people will complain because it's soooo star trek

For me the Iphone is another completely irrelevant gadget. :p
I never cared for gaming on the go. I got a GBA that I never use. My cell phone is a Nokia 2600
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/sto ... _full2.jpg

EDIT: and Mac's designs are another thing that I am less than impressed by. What really sets Macs apart when it comes to design is their absurd fascination with hiding the On switch.

I'm not enthusiastic about the iPad. But I hope Apple is successful if for no other reason than to make the technology popular and create a market ripe for competition.

They've always been on the cutting edge technology wise, and as far as providing the community with something they really want - something shiny, slick, fast, ridiculously GUI - user friendly.

I've always preferred things I can customize, so even when i got my iPhone, I jailbroke it. Needless to say, I prefer having things my way, but I'm not so dumb as to not acknowledge the fact that Apple and Google are fast becoming the leading companies in the field.

On a more serious note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Also:
http://bitsandpieces.us/2010/01/28/ipad-vs-stone/

The internet has just started to mock the iPad:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1928558