I would like more details on this release, even though I have the original, but I would prefer better graphics, I don't already have RoE and I like the look of the new mission pack. But does the release have all the Bethesda crap on it, and how are the Doom 1 and 2 games implemented?

Also, what's the best way to get it - retail or Steam, and if retail, is it on DVD-ROM (at last)?

I don't have a BFG edition, but from what I've heard and saw on YouTube, it's not worth it.

It has new beautiful GUIs, but it's the same game. Still has low-poly models and blurry textures, and the brightness is too bright. Also, there's no modding tools. Here's some playthrough videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nejL1uEsJ9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3atU5yiRnYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzkgYDSpOWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TBqYPOxoAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9XAFCaCMn4

Lost mission has a lot of locations copy-pasted from original Doom 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

Doom 1 and 2 are using newer engine, which might prevent custom mods from working with them, although I don't know that for sure. Doom 2 is censored, censorship is stupid and lazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks

Thanks, NX.

Wow, those videos were a bit of a revelation, especially the Doom 1 and 2 butchering and the Lost Mission stuff - reused, indeed.

And what was with those ridiculous new sound effects in the games? And why have the Wolfenstein maps in Doom 2 been so heavily sanitised for kiddies????

I can only assume Bethesda ordered id to do all this crap to their own classics? Fuck it, I'm keeping my original copies, at least they're the originals and not some kind of perverted game edition of the Star Wars Special Editions. I mean, id releasing revisionist versions of their own games like George Lucas did his Original Trilogy?? I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!

Fuck you, Bethesda. Fuck you very much indeed. :evil:

If you plan on modding d3, or playing any d3 mods your more than likely going to have to get the bfg edition just because of all the nice stuff that was added engine side. I'm sure all the short commings will be fixed by other modders.

You know, it's very possible those changes were done to the Wolf/Keen stuff because id/Beth DON'T own the full rights to it.

3D Realms still sells the keen/Wolf3D games on their site. As far as I know, they never lost the publishing rights to those. If that's the case, legally, Beth couldn't sell content from those games w/o permission. So it would have nothing to do with id/Beth, just that they don't actually own the rights.

Those stuff were changed (or better say cut) because D3 BFG is same version like in Germany and rest of the world. Id soft want to quick put this game on stores so they do not work on different versions.

Also, how has Doom 3 been improved? My GOD, have they softened the stencil shadows? Now that would be cool!

But the textures and lighting look the same to me, from the little I've seen.

Also, I'm very disappointed that id gave in to those morons who can't play the game without needing a flashlight on their shotguns, resulting in the "no duct tape on Mars" patch phenomenon. Sorry, but Doom 3 was a much better game as originally released.

One other thing, the sound effects have changed slightly - why change the Doom 1 and 2 ones, and have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Foebane wrote:

have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Doubt it, it wants millions.

Besides, those sounds suck.

The Happy Friar wrote:

Foebane wrote:

have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Doubt it, it wants millions.

Besides, those sounds suck.

Really? I've heard countless "fans" of the game say that the "official" sound FX suck, and feel that Reznor's are far superior. But I see nothing wrong with the official FX as they are.

Foebane wrote:

Really? I've heard countless "fans" of the game say that the "official" sound FX suck, and feel that Reznor's are far superior. But I see nothing wrong with the official FX as they are.

Same "fans" who complained about the lack of light and no duct tape on mars.

Here's the way I look at it: if you're a fan of the game, you're a fan of the game. If you say you're a fan but like illegal FX better, mods tacked on, others model's, someone else's ARB shaders & what not, you're not a fan of the GAME. You're someone who says they're a fan but likes nothing about it.

In that case, Happy Friar, I'm a true fan of the game.

But how have the graphics been improved in the BFG edition, no-one's told me that yet. But from what I've seen of the textures, they still look as low-res as ever!

Foebane wrote:

In that case, Happy Friar, I'm a true fan of the game.

But how have the graphics been improved in the BFG edition, no-one's told me that yet. But from what I've seen of the textures, they still look as low-res as ever!

Generally speaking the textures have not been improved. They're the same textures compressed using a different format. Sarge has a new head; and I believe some monsters have improved textures, but nothing I've seen in my (limited) playing time has made me go "wow" - other that running at 120 FPS of course

Some of the maps have been tweaked with some additional lighting and ambient sound. Particle effects have been tweaked here and there. Enemies have been made weaker.

They censored the Wolfenstein maps.... >:(

WHY???!!!!!

Also, the graphics are kinda like RAGE... but the sound FX are the same... the models look a little bit newer... but not too new....

Just stick with DOOM 3 for PC....

Unless you want to play it in your free time on your console... then otherwise this is a NO-BUY.

Removal of Nazi imagery is a legal requirement to ship the game in Germany, and id Software didn't want to have to create multiple distributions for Steam, PC retail, XBOX retail and PS3 retail.

Modification of medkits is a legal requirement as the red cross symbol is owned by The Red Cross, and protected by interntional law, and they don't want it misused.

Quote:

Same "fans" who complained about the lack of light and no duct tape on mars.

Hilarious. "Lack" of light and flashlight = primary reasons the game stands out.

The original sound design is peerless. No other game even comes close, and
I'd easily say that it is as important to the legacy of Doom 3 as the
graphics engine.

I've tried the Reznor sounds. Some of them are better, some are worse, but
by no means do they blow the originals out of the water, as is often
implied. It's the aesthetic philosophy behind the sound design in Doom 3
that mattered.

Concerning BFG edition, the lost missions are quite good, in terms of
design, graphics, and gameplay. If you like Quake 2, you should check them
out; they are much more action-oriented (and harder) than the main campaign
levels of Doom 3. Still beautiful.

A lot of people including my self are considered "hardcore gamers" by industry professionals because we have been playing games for so long and we expect with each new game that comes out to make us just as hyped up as the very first game we played. In reality the reason why the old games were so good because they were so abstract in terms of design so people's imagination filled in the blanks and made the game there way just by playing it.

Now a days that obviously isn't the case, and small stupid stuff like the lack of nazi's piss people off because the other game mechanics aren't enough to make the game that fun. I personally was like whatever about Doom 3 as a game, I bought it originally for the modding stuff. With Doom 3 bfg going open source, if you want to play any new mods get it, if you want to make a game off it, get it, but like Unreal 3, Doom 3 feels a lot like a tech demo similar to UE3, and doom 3 bfg doesn't change that much, but it adds a lot more tech.

What everyone should be doing, especially here, a lot of people are complaing about how it isn't worth it, they hate it, whatever what have you, but they bought it. That's a potentional audience, people on here should be figuring out what new things could you add to make it fun. A doom 3 bfg mod that adds a bunch of intutive mechanics that aren't distracting and fit nicely with the original game might be a worth while mod for someone to do.

If id do open BFG edition up, I hope the flashlight is modded back in.

My current copy of Doom 3 is NOT a Steam version, nor have I been able to add it to Steam for practicality. So I think I will get this new BFG version specifically on Steam, so I can have the game both on and off.

I also have the original main WADs for the Doom 1 and 2 engine games which I use with ZDoom, so I still have the option even if the Doom 1 and 2 on Doom 3 BFG Edition are that limited. I'm curious to see how the revised engine will work, for both Doom 1/2 and Doom 3.

jmarshall23 wrote:

but like Unreal 3, Doom 3 feels a lot like a tech demo similar to UE3, and doom 3 bfg doesn't change that much, but it adds a lot more tech.

Any specifics?

Personally, I reckon the BFG edition is okay and I'm a long time fan of Doom3. I particularly like the new native support for a 360 controller in the game, playiong on a PC. I'm not too keen on the slightly over-bright moments (not many, but irritating nonetheless).

Here's a video of me playing through the Exis Labs section of the Lost Missions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyB_3OZIKrU

Here are some screens I took of the 'Exis Labs' level of the Lost Missions (they are reduced in size and I took them all with a 'noClip' camera:

http://i.imgur.com/lz3aB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jP7gf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bCLdz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/trPJ3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/esmkL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/py2I5.jpg

Quote:

I'm not too keen on the slightly over-bright moments (not many, but irritating nonetheless).

Added lights are an issue in the old levels, where they come
across as splotches of graffiti. The original Doom 3 was clearly
optimized, both aesthetically and technically, for spare lighting.

However, the new levels were probably designed around a brighter
style. A consequence is that there tends to be more detail: the extra
lights in the old levels expose how much was meant to be
suggested. The low poly environments still hold up today
because they are draped in darkness, obscuring the limits of a 2004
polygon budget.

I love The Lost Missions. id are returning to their roots of straight
up action, and I hope this adumbrates Doom 4.

What I can tell for BFG Edition:

- faster loading times
- much more direct input
- motion blur looks pretty neat
- better sounds
- better performance

Lost missions is just an "okay" level pack with standard doom3-assets but much less scripted events and more run and gun action.

If you already have Doom3+RoE imo you don't need new bfg edition until you are totally desperate for lost missions and steam achievements or if you're looking for 3D-support.

Don't know, maybe we will see all the doom3-mods coming to bfg (like coop mod) when tools are avilable (not talking about source code of engine here). But I haven't heard about updated tools for it, just about the gpl release of the engine.

Also Doom 1+2 are not worth it in this version. Apart from the censor stuff in bfg versions (no red cross, no nazis in secret levels), you better grab doom collectors edition for a couple of bucks and you get ultimate doom, doom2 and final doom. then you can use those with zdoom or similar.

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

Faster loading times? GOOD. I could never figure out why it took so long to load id Tech 4 maps.

Quote:

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

Faster loading times? GOOD. I could never figure out why it took so long to load id Tech 4 maps.

Uncompressed images
Parsing and reparsing of text based files.

Those are the two major things, they also added the ability to stream in data as it becomes needed.

Foebane wrote:

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

not talking about steam. I meant to buy it on retail disc. or buy them separately for really cheap

Quote:

Any specifics?

They dropped in everything from idTech 5 into the bfg edition minus the idTech 5 renderer.

Load times are noticeably much faster.

I thought there was a "play it as it was" or "classic" option, if so you get the best of both worlds.

Most of the new stuff makes modding easier IMO, for example if you want flashlights on your guns it's there to use, no one has to make or put in a "duct tape mod" anymore or anything else like that. Why would anyone be complaining?

I think my biggest question is about backward compatibly stuff, will all the old levels or mods I love play and still look the same as they did before in the "new" game? Or vise versa, could you play the new levels in the old Doom³? Will someone make a "lost mission" mod for the now old Doom³?

CrimsonHead wrote:

I think my biggest question is about backward compatibly stuff, will all the old levels or mods I love play and still look the same as they did before in the "new" game? Or vise versa, could you play the new levels in the old Doom³? Will someone make a "lost mission" mod for the now old Doom³?

You can't run original maps/mods with BFG edition and vice versa, at least not without some work:

non-SDK mods would have to be repackaged to the new file system and assets converted to the new formats.

SDK mods would have to wait until the GPL release and the code merged into that baseline. They can't work with the retail Doom3BFG.exe because it doesn't load a separate DLL for the gamecode, everything is in the EXE like Rage.

Running the Lost Mission levels with the original engine would be possible if a) id Software release the source files for the assets (md5mesh, etc.) that are now binary in the BFG release, b) someone adds support for those formats to the original engine or c) they can be reverse engineered into suitable formats for it. Obviously, none of those would be publicly releasable as a "Lost Mission" mod but it might be fun to do.

I would like more details on this release, even though I have the original, but I would prefer better graphics, I don't already have RoE and I like the look of the new mission pack. But does the release have all the Bethesda crap on it, and how are the Doom 1 and 2 games implemented?

Also, what's the best way to get it - retail or Steam, and if retail, is it on DVD-ROM (at last)?

I don't have a BFG edition, but from what I've heard and saw on YouTube, it's not worth it.

It has new beautiful GUIs, but it's the same game. Still has low-poly models and blurry textures, and the brightness is too bright. Also, there's no modding tools. Here's some playthrough videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nejL1uEsJ9o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3atU5yiRnYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzkgYDSpOWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TBqYPOxoAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9XAFCaCMn4

Lost mission has a lot of locations copy-pasted from original Doom 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

Doom 1 and 2 are using newer engine, which might prevent custom mods from working with them, although I don't know that for sure. Doom 2 is censored, censorship is stupid and lazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snCRIl16ks

Thanks, NX.

Wow, those videos were a bit of a revelation, especially the Doom 1 and 2 butchering and the Lost Mission stuff - reused, indeed.

And what was with those ridiculous new sound effects in the games? And why have the Wolfenstein maps in Doom 2 been so heavily sanitised for kiddies????

I can only assume Bethesda ordered id to do all this crap to their own classics? Fuck it, I'm keeping my original copies, at least they're the originals and not some kind of perverted game edition of the Star Wars Special Editions. I mean, id releasing revisionist versions of their own games like George Lucas did his Original Trilogy?? I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!

Fuck you, Bethesda. Fuck you very much indeed. :evil:

If you plan on modding d3, or playing any d3 mods your more than likely going to have to get the bfg edition just because of all the nice stuff that was added engine side. I'm sure all the short commings will be fixed by other modders.

You know, it's very possible those changes were done to the Wolf/Keen stuff because id/Beth DON'T own the full rights to it.

3D Realms still sells the keen/Wolf3D games on their site. As far as I know, they never lost the publishing rights to those. If that's the case, legally, Beth couldn't sell content from those games w/o permission. So it would have nothing to do with id/Beth, just that they don't actually own the rights.

Those stuff were changed (or better say cut) because D3 BFG is same version like in Germany and rest of the world. Id soft want to quick put this game on stores so they do not work on different versions.

Also, how has Doom 3 been improved? My GOD, have they softened the stencil shadows? Now that would be cool!

But the textures and lighting look the same to me, from the little I've seen.

Also, I'm very disappointed that id gave in to those morons who can't play the game without needing a flashlight on their shotguns, resulting in the "no duct tape on Mars" patch phenomenon. Sorry, but Doom 3 was a much better game as originally released.

One other thing, the sound effects have changed slightly - why change the Doom 1 and 2 ones, and have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Foebane wrote:

have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Doubt it, it wants millions.

Besides, those sounds suck.

The Happy Friar wrote:

Foebane wrote:

have Trent Reznor's sound FX been reinstated for Doom 3?

Doubt it, it wants millions.

Besides, those sounds suck.

Really? I've heard countless "fans" of the game say that the "official" sound FX suck, and feel that Reznor's are far superior. But I see nothing wrong with the official FX as they are.

Foebane wrote:

Really? I've heard countless "fans" of the game say that the "official" sound FX suck, and feel that Reznor's are far superior. But I see nothing wrong with the official FX as they are.

Same "fans" who complained about the lack of light and no duct tape on mars.

Here's the way I look at it: if you're a fan of the game, you're a fan of the game. If you say you're a fan but like illegal FX better, mods tacked on, others model's, someone else's ARB shaders & what not, you're not a fan of the GAME. You're someone who says they're a fan but likes nothing about it.

In that case, Happy Friar, I'm a true fan of the game.

But how have the graphics been improved in the BFG edition, no-one's told me that yet. But from what I've seen of the textures, they still look as low-res as ever!

Foebane wrote:

In that case, Happy Friar, I'm a true fan of the game.

But how have the graphics been improved in the BFG edition, no-one's told me that yet. But from what I've seen of the textures, they still look as low-res as ever!

Generally speaking the textures have not been improved. They're the same textures compressed using a different format. Sarge has a new head; and I believe some monsters have improved textures, but nothing I've seen in my (limited) playing time has made me go "wow" - other that running at 120 FPS of course

Some of the maps have been tweaked with some additional lighting and ambient sound. Particle effects have been tweaked here and there. Enemies have been made weaker.

They censored the Wolfenstein maps.... >:(

WHY???!!!!!

Also, the graphics are kinda like RAGE... but the sound FX are the same... the models look a little bit newer... but not too new....

Just stick with DOOM 3 for PC....

Unless you want to play it in your free time on your console... then otherwise this is a NO-BUY.

Removal of Nazi imagery is a legal requirement to ship the game in Germany, and id Software didn't want to have to create multiple distributions for Steam, PC retail, XBOX retail and PS3 retail.

Modification of medkits is a legal requirement as the red cross symbol is owned by The Red Cross, and protected by interntional law, and they don't want it misused.

Quote:

Same "fans" who complained about the lack of light and no duct tape on mars.

Hilarious. "Lack" of light and flashlight = primary reasons the game stands out.

The original sound design is peerless. No other game even comes close, and
I'd easily say that it is as important to the legacy of Doom 3 as the
graphics engine.

I've tried the Reznor sounds. Some of them are better, some are worse, but
by no means do they blow the originals out of the water, as is often
implied. It's the aesthetic philosophy behind the sound design in Doom 3
that mattered.

Concerning BFG edition, the lost missions are quite good, in terms of
design, graphics, and gameplay. If you like Quake 2, you should check them
out; they are much more action-oriented (and harder) than the main campaign
levels of Doom 3. Still beautiful.

A lot of people including my self are considered "hardcore gamers" by industry professionals because we have been playing games for so long and we expect with each new game that comes out to make us just as hyped up as the very first game we played. In reality the reason why the old games were so good because they were so abstract in terms of design so people's imagination filled in the blanks and made the game there way just by playing it.

Now a days that obviously isn't the case, and small stupid stuff like the lack of nazi's piss people off because the other game mechanics aren't enough to make the game that fun. I personally was like whatever about Doom 3 as a game, I bought it originally for the modding stuff. With Doom 3 bfg going open source, if you want to play any new mods get it, if you want to make a game off it, get it, but like Unreal 3, Doom 3 feels a lot like a tech demo similar to UE3, and doom 3 bfg doesn't change that much, but it adds a lot more tech.

What everyone should be doing, especially here, a lot of people are complaing about how it isn't worth it, they hate it, whatever what have you, but they bought it. That's a potentional audience, people on here should be figuring out what new things could you add to make it fun. A doom 3 bfg mod that adds a bunch of intutive mechanics that aren't distracting and fit nicely with the original game might be a worth while mod for someone to do.

If id do open BFG edition up, I hope the flashlight is modded back in.

My current copy of Doom 3 is NOT a Steam version, nor have I been able to add it to Steam for practicality. So I think I will get this new BFG version specifically on Steam, so I can have the game both on and off.

I also have the original main WADs for the Doom 1 and 2 engine games which I use with ZDoom, so I still have the option even if the Doom 1 and 2 on Doom 3 BFG Edition are that limited. I'm curious to see how the revised engine will work, for both Doom 1/2 and Doom 3.

jmarshall23 wrote:

but like Unreal 3, Doom 3 feels a lot like a tech demo similar to UE3, and doom 3 bfg doesn't change that much, but it adds a lot more tech.

Any specifics?

Personally, I reckon the BFG edition is okay and I'm a long time fan of Doom3. I particularly like the new native support for a 360 controller in the game, playiong on a PC. I'm not too keen on the slightly over-bright moments (not many, but irritating nonetheless).

Here's a video of me playing through the Exis Labs section of the Lost Missions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyB_3OZIKrU

Here are some screens I took of the 'Exis Labs' level of the Lost Missions (they are reduced in size and I took them all with a 'noClip' camera:

http://i.imgur.com/lz3aB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jP7gf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bCLdz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/trPJ3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/esmkL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/py2I5.jpg

Quote:

I'm not too keen on the slightly over-bright moments (not many, but irritating nonetheless).

Added lights are an issue in the old levels, where they come
across as splotches of graffiti. The original Doom 3 was clearly
optimized, both aesthetically and technically, for spare lighting.

However, the new levels were probably designed around a brighter
style. A consequence is that there tends to be more detail: the extra
lights in the old levels expose how much was meant to be
suggested. The low poly environments still hold up today
because they are draped in darkness, obscuring the limits of a 2004
polygon budget.

I love The Lost Missions. id are returning to their roots of straight
up action, and I hope this adumbrates Doom 4.

What I can tell for BFG Edition:

- faster loading times
- much more direct input
- motion blur looks pretty neat
- better sounds
- better performance

Lost missions is just an "okay" level pack with standard doom3-assets but much less scripted events and more run and gun action.

If you already have Doom3+RoE imo you don't need new bfg edition until you are totally desperate for lost missions and steam achievements or if you're looking for 3D-support.

Don't know, maybe we will see all the doom3-mods coming to bfg (like coop mod) when tools are avilable (not talking about source code of engine here). But I haven't heard about updated tools for it, just about the gpl release of the engine.

Also Doom 1+2 are not worth it in this version. Apart from the censor stuff in bfg versions (no red cross, no nazis in secret levels), you better grab doom collectors edition for a couple of bucks and you get ultimate doom, doom2 and final doom. then you can use those with zdoom or similar.

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

Faster loading times? GOOD. I could never figure out why it took so long to load id Tech 4 maps.

Quote:

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

Faster loading times? GOOD. I could never figure out why it took so long to load id Tech 4 maps.

Uncompressed images
Parsing and reparsing of text based files.

Those are the two major things, they also added the ability to stream in data as it becomes needed.

Foebane wrote:

Yeah, right. Get Final Doom OR Doom Collector's Edition on Steam. What a pity neither are available, Sarge.

not talking about steam. I meant to buy it on retail disc. or buy them separately for really cheap

Quote:

Any specifics?

They dropped in everything from idTech 5 into the bfg edition minus the idTech 5 renderer.

Load times are noticeably much faster.

I thought there was a "play it as it was" or "classic" option, if so you get the best of both worlds.

Most of the new stuff makes modding easier IMO, for example if you want flashlights on your guns it's there to use, no one has to make or put in a "duct tape mod" anymore or anything else like that. Why would anyone be complaining?

I think my biggest question is about backward compatibly stuff, will all the old levels or mods I love play and still look the same as they did before in the "new" game? Or vise versa, could you play the new levels in the old Doom³? Will someone make a "lost mission" mod for the now old Doom³?

CrimsonHead wrote:

I think my biggest question is about backward compatibly stuff, will all the old levels or mods I love play and still look the same as they did before in the "new" game? Or vise versa, could you play the new levels in the old Doom³? Will someone make a "lost mission" mod for the now old Doom³?

You can't run original maps/mods with BFG edition and vice versa, at least not without some work:

non-SDK mods would have to be repackaged to the new file system and assets converted to the new formats.

SDK mods would have to wait until the GPL release and the code merged into that baseline. They can't work with the retail Doom3BFG.exe because it doesn't load a separate DLL for the gamecode, everything is in the EXE like Rage.

Running the Lost Mission levels with the original engine would be possible if a) id Software release the source files for the assets (md5mesh, etc.) that are now binary in the BFG release, b) someone adds support for those formats to the original engine or c) they can be reverse engineered into suitable formats for it. Obviously, none of those would be publicly releasable as a "Lost Mission" mod but it might be fun to do.