BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:11 am :

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others:

When creating scripts and sample boxes to let them run in (aka map) please make sure to set them up in unique folder structures to make maintaining easier and avoid possible double named files which interfere with each other.

Since custom content files will spread over various directories, it'll be appropriate to create subfolders named by your NICKNAME (without any special characters of course) to keep things tight and easy to find afterwards.

Here's my suggestion:

Media:

Code:

- Create a main folder in the base directory named by your nick.
- Within this folder create (two) subfolders named: models and textures
- store all your media in these two folders and of course appropriate subfolders (like characters, base_wall...)

Scripts (progs, cameras...):

Code:

- again create a folder within the individual doom folder (progs, cameras...) with your nickname and if you wish appropriate subfolders

Materials:

Code:

- please name the .mtr file by your nickname and if you create more of them increment the filename
- set up the materials NOT in a way to fit into the existing Doom materials
- set them up by your nickname and from there on go with base_wall or whatever you like to organize them and/or maintain the ease to identify the content category by a well picked directory name which ideally reflects the storage folders as described in the "media" storage suggestion above

Def files:

Code:

- see under "Materials"

Mapfiles:

Code:

- again make a folder named by your nick and proceed from there

Think about it - if everybody works on a fancy "robot" script he may end up naming his things "robot.map" and "robot.script" - soon files will interfere with each other and in the worst case either your work is lost or you have to reedit the third party script to fit the folders you pushed it into to avoid file overwriting.

A neat side effect will be that you can easily find what youu need later on without the need to call a research agency to analyze your base folder

Feel free to disagree below, but also please feel free to either make a better suggestion or to agree.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:55 am :

Agreed.
My base folder is already a catastrophic mess

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

rich_is_bored@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:04 pm :

Exactly what I was thinking.

That is unless the files are for a tutorial and need to be viewed or edited.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:05 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

Good for distribution, but a little bad for editing

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:18 pm :

personally I'd prefer it if everyone kept their s**t in the proper directories (base/textures, base/progs, etc). It's more centralised that way, and we dont end up with a million folders in the base directory which we need to sift through to do our editing.
eg, a few of my folders:
base/textures/cr_walls/
base/textures/cr_floors/
base/maps/cr/
and all my maps are named cr_*.map
This way has worked perfectly well with the other quake games (cept q1 which had f**king awful directory restrictions) and it would seem a bit odd to go changing that now.
All that would be required is for people to register (just a sticky thread) their prefix. I know this was done at quake3world when the q3 scene was starting and it worked brilliantly.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:43 pm :

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

It did work well for QuakeIII, on the whole, only minor messups happened - and pk3 files not working, or how to make them was one of the biggest newbie questions.

I often was tearing my hair out over a texture that would appear, only to find there was a conflict in another .pk3 file causing the troubles.

I usually put bb_ before anything I make, altho I admit I have a lot of this type of stuff :-

test
test1
doortest
1
curvy
autosave

I don't realease them tho...

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:49 pm :

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

this in my opinion is a bad way to do it, and what I was commenting on. I didn't notice the others were different. Tho I spose that's cos they have to be different, as we can't load maps from any directory other than maps

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:01 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

The way I read it he's suggesting quite the opposite.

I advertise individual folder structures to keep the vanilla doom folders completely clean (should also help pretty much when distributing content later) and the cray is advocating prefixes to mix up the files with the existant directories without causing trouble.

Well with my solution you end up with many distinct subfolders and with thecray's solution you end up with a long long list of files all sitting in the same folder. The logic why this should be better does not unfold for me.
If for example evillair will pick doom3 up and distribute a couple of texture packs I'd truly want them to sit all in the same folder instead of searching around where they're cluttered in the id base folders, but I may be completely wrong.
Also in Quake3 people tended to set up the textures in a way that each texture pack appeared distinct in the texture selection window - so why is it better to keep it distinct for selection but mixed for storage?
From a standpoint where life could be easier, I still see the folder setup as a more easy to maintain solution, but again, I may be completely wrong.

And yes, sure I could add a database table where people register an unique prefix, but I'm not an official place where people go to to register something. In the end files will spread the web coming from all directions and everybody does what he wants.
In Quake3 for example it was also fashion to append a gametype and filetype prefix like q3mdl_whatever for models...

I can't see the append prefix and mix all up solution as the better way to go, but that's why we're here to discuss it. It is only a suggestion and if people heavily dislike it, it is the wrong way to go.

I could also run a poll about it, but it would be pretty meaningless since far too less people frequent this site to get something out of it.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:05 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

Isn't that a nice and clean solution to store and find media content?
I mean it's not only textures which would sit there, it's also models, animations and so on.

Quote:

this in my opinion is a bad way to do it, and what I was commenting on. I didn't notice the others were different. Tho I spose that's cos they have to be different, as we can't load maps from any directory other than maps

I guess we can agree to disagree here

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:13 pm :

BNA, you're just shooting your idea down by saying we should create some standards, but then going on to say that since doom3world isn't a huge community it wont have any effect... you wouldn't be a very good salesman:)

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.
However, when it all comes down to it, the directory structure will be rendered meaningless when we make releases anyway, as they'll be pk4 (or whatever) files, which will just sit nicely in the base directory.
It is for these packages where we should be discussing naming conventions.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:27 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Actually I'm a very good and seasoned salesman

But I'm not a pushy guy - the community has to live with an idea, not me.
I can still stick to whatever solution I want, but I just thought that it's a good idea to do it this way. A good salesman is able to convince people of his idea / procuct.

And stating that Doom3world isn't a huge community isn't entirely wrong. I haven't found / seen a better one yet, but still it's way to small and unknown to establish a standard which many people will give a rat's ass aobut.

Obviously both ideas aren't as good as we think - otherwise there wouldn't be any need to discuss them.

Quote:

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.

It could have been done better for a long time in my opinion

Quote:

However, when it all comes down to it, the directory structure will be rendered meaningless when we make releases anyway, as they'll be pk4 (or whatever) files, which will just sit nicely in the base directory.
It is for these packages where we should be discussing naming conventions.

Even in the pk4 packs the file structure will be maintained - don't tell me you'll never unzip one to see how a script is done...
Also when reusing content from custom maps (like textures) you'll have to repack them for distribution.

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

LPlasma@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:22 pm :

Yup, there is in fact no better place than doom3world that I've found. The only other good site is doom3resource, but that has no real community behind it, just some good information for beginning mappers. This is where the real d3 community is at this point.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 2:40 am :

this is probably the most popular english community anyway. Phoboslab.de is gaining in popularity. not quite as big as d3world yet, but getting there. I think this has something to do with being joined with doom3maps.de, which is the only site I've found to this day which has maps for download.

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:05 am :

BNA! wrote:

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

I think most of us are use to doing that from earlier editing.
I remember when the naming idea was originally proposed for QuakeIII - there was a bit of resistance, but eventually everyone followed suit as it made sense.

I skimmed through BNA's original post and didn't notice the difference till now.

I think where BNA is coming from is that there are just so many folder in doom already. In quakeIII, there's about 10, in doom there's like 25 of them !
Finding your media in those folders is not going to be easy under the current quakeIII method, even with a nickname suffix.

But then, as TheCray_nz points out, you could end up with a large amount of additional folders in the base folder.

Maybe this wouldn't be too much of a problem - I can't imagine anyone having more than 10 additional folders at any one time.

I think it would be a neater method than scattering nickname folders in all the base subfolders, like textures, models, guis etc.

I can't think of a better method right now.

Taking BNA's method a step further, imagine this scenario :-

I'm not sure if the above would work, but basically, you have one folder for your nick and in that folder sub-folders for your individual map projects and the standard folder structures within there.
I maybe sounds overly complex, but it would be incredibly neat and very easy to find media for any given project.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:37 am :

bb_matt: the problem is that maps HAVE to be in the base/maps folder. I think it's the same for materials and scripts as well, they have to be in their respective folders.

So doing things the old quake3 way is more consistent.
eg, q3 way:
base/textures/cray
base/models/cray
base/maps/cray
base/materials/cray

bna's way:
base/cray/textures
base/cray/models
base/maps/cray
base/materials/cray

it just seems a bit more odd to do things that way. *shrug*

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:46 am :

Yeah - your right - it tries to load a map outside of the maps folder, but comes up with an error :- call to unknown function 'camera_1' in idTrigger_Multi

Shoulda known it wouldn't work.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:32 pm :

Just add a folder called "custom" in the base folder and herd all the nickname folders there - what about that?

But as I can clearly see thecray has made his mind up and there's nothing in the world that will change it. I can't see any sort of logic in this way nor can I see it making life easier in any way.
But this may be related to the fact that I associate content with the authors and not with the content type.

I for one will keep it in a folder organized structure to distinct content at a quick glance. If I consider to install non folder organized content I'll either make a second install of the game then or I skip it. I have no interest to end up with a printed list of files to remember what file came with the game and what file is custom hence needs to get redistributed with a custom map.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:58 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Phoboslab is much bigger than Doom3world.org, but it has only a fraction of the content - the same applies to all the rest of the German Doom3 sites I'm aware of together.

BTW: Phoboslab.de == Doom3maps.de == Quake4maps.de == Stalkermaps.de

Talk about focus there...

If Doom3maps.de offers maps for download - fine for them. If id software and activision doesn't care about this site spreading alpha files but pressing other sites not to do so with cease and desist orders I assume that they either fly below their radar thereshold or they indeed do not care.
Let's see what will happen with the guy that sells doom3 alpha files.

Well, doom3maps.de has already been discussed elsewhere to greater lenght without any real results.

But back to community size and influence.
when I look at the bottom of the site I see about 770 registered users.
Substract about 200 for giving wrong email addresses, another 10 which I know belong to script kiddies (like w0rm - hello w0rm, how's the weather in Israel, golden line still your provider?) and you'll be left with about 500 real registered users.
Out of these 500 maybe 10% can be cosidered as active which leaves 50.
Out of these 50 active users about 20 - 30% can be considered as people who give input - that leaves 10 to 15 real posters.

Sure, we have many many lurkers and people who come here, but judging by the numbers above it's just not enough to consider it big, it's not even medium when you take in account what huge game it is.

I think this site here only appeals to people who look for informations and not as a community style place. It's more like the chess club in high school where the rather uncool weird people with thick glasses gather to talk about things others will benefit from.

So to say this site totally lacks any sex-appeal

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:03 pm :

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.

And the logic is twofold.
Firstly, it's a unified structure. There's no sense in storing the textures and models in a different system to the maps and scripts.

Secondly, it's a system people are familiar with.
Ask yourself this: You download a map, you like the textures and want to check them out, where's the first place you look? I guarantee it's not the directory named after the author, cos that's just crazy. You look in the textures directory, cos that's where textures are meant to be

It's pretty safe to assume that every other community will be sticking to the old system, so regardless of what we decide, there will still be a lot of authors putting their textures in the base/textures directory.

And you're right, I've made my mind on how I'm going to be storing all my work, it's how I've always done it. I'd prefer to not have to change my directory structure for every game released

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:16 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.

It was just a suggestion - I don't make a big deal out of it.

If I look for textures I only look into the textures folder because I have to look there, not because I intuitively go there.

What gives - it was a suggestion, got discussed and failed.

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

darn it for a moment there I thought someone had decided upon naming convension, oh well, it's going to be a while before I manage to get anything out.

my vote would be for:
textures/custom/eskimo_space

That way all the custom textures stay under the custom folder and in a seperate folder which is listed neatly with any further textures that I may release along with others custom content.

I'm sure id will finally settle upon a naming convension once they have the editing manual out, please tell me there's going to a manual.

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

I know it has been a long time since anyone has posted in this thread, but as a modding noob trying to learn where to put stuff, this whole thread has me very confused.

Before I read it my understanding was that anyone modding doom3 would create a folder BESIDE base and place all custom files in the that. Start doom 3, load your mod, and away you go...

All your custom files in one place

c:\doom3\
---base\idstuff
---mymod\
------scripts
------etc....

Am I mistaken somewhere, isn't this what id did with the second version of thier sdk? the vehicle mod? By the way, i read somewhere elseon doom3 world that you shouldn't install the sdk to c:\doom3.

Isn't this exactly where id meant it to go, how else would the vehicle mod work out of the box?

Thanks for the great community everyone here at doom3world. It has been a great place to hang out

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

you're exactly right on your first question....

Making a mod is creating a directory "beside" base and then re-creating the rest of the directory structure beneath it (def, script, models, textures, etc.).

As for the second question:

I think they meant for you to be able to directly copy the vehicles folder into your Doom3 directory. You "can" install the SDK into your Doom3 directory, but then you have a bunch of non-game-related folders (source code-related) cluttering things up. To me, it's easier to just copy and paste the few vehicle files into my game directory.

G

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

), but this appears to be an attempt to standardize distribution. If all anybody's worried about is distributing custom content then it should all be done in the form of a mod. According to iddevnet, mod assets should be stored in a directory that is a sibling to the base directory, not in the base directory. Goliath's trigger tutorial is a perfect example.

I like the idea of using a prefix matching ones username, that would greatly help to identify things. I also like the idea of having a central place to register ones prefix. It's kind of like registering a brand

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

Totally wrong topic here.
Anyway, I typed "area name" into the search keywords field, and one of the results was this:
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewto ... =area+name
"Search" is here, just in case you need it one day:
http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/search.php

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:11 am :

Code:

- Create a main folder in the base directory named by your nick.
- Within this folder create (two) subfolders named: models and textures
- store all your media in these two folders and of course appropriate subfolders (like characters, base_wall...)

Scripts (progs, cameras...):

Code:

- again create a folder within the individual doom folder (progs, cameras...) with your nickname and if you wish appropriate subfolders

Materials:

Code:

- please name the .mtr file by your nickname and if you create more of them increment the filename
- set up the materials NOT in a way to fit into the existing Doom materials
- set them up by your nickname and from there on go with base_wall or whatever you like to organize them and/or maintain the ease to identify the content category by a well picked directory name which ideally reflects the storage folders as described in the "media" storage suggestion above

Def files:

Code:

- see under "Materials"

Mapfiles:

Code:

- again make a folder named by your nick and proceed from there

Feel free to disagree below, but also please feel free to either make a better suggestion or to agree.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:55 am :

Agreed.
My base folder is already a catastrophic mess

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

rich_is_bored@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:04 pm :

Exactly what I was thinking.

That is unless the files are for a tutorial and need to be viewed or edited.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:05 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

Good for distribution, but a little bad for editing

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:18 pm :

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:43 pm :

I don't realease them tho...

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:49 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:01 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:05 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

Isn't that a nice and clean solution to store and find media content?
I mean it's not only textures which would sit there, it's also models, animations and so on.

Quote:

I guess we can agree to disagree here

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:13 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:27 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Actually I'm a very good and seasoned salesman

Quote:

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.

It could have been done better for a long time in my opinion

Quote:

LPlasma@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:22 pm :

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 2:40 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:05 am :

BNA! wrote:

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:37 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:46 am :

Yeah - your right - it tries to load a map outside of the maps folder, but comes up with an error :- call to unknown function 'camera_1' in idTrigger_Multi

Shoulda known it wouldn't work.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:32 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:58 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:03 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:16 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:47 pm :

No - it hasn't failed - it's useful to discuss this type of stuff.

I can see both sides - the old quakeIII way of doing it and the way that BNA is suggesting - a compromise can easily be reached.

But I think TheCray_nz is right in the way the quakeIII mapping community will store thier files - a sub-folder nick in each appropriate base folder with the media in there.

But if a lot of the media can be grouped into one folder, it would be neater, but not neccessarily more logical ?

If I want to look for a .script file, I'm going to want to look in the progs folder, because that's where I would expect to find it.

As far as the Doom3 editing community goes, I think it will get as big as the QuakeIII editing scene, but mainly for MP maps. There's going to be a TON of lamers releasing total crap that will mess up your doom3 installation for the same reasons that BNA started this thread.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 4:14 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

No - it hasn't failed - it's useful to discuss this type of stuff.

I can see both sides - the old quakeIII way of doing it and the way that BNA is suggesting - a compromise can easily be reached.

I can't see it succeeding if everything is supposed to get handled the Q3 style.

Quote:

But I think TheCray_nz is right in the way the quakeIII mapping community will store thier files - a sub-folder nick in each appropriate base folder with the media in there.

That's my suggestion - thecray's suggestion is to append a prefix and put it into the id software dir's. No doubt that this could work also and in some cases it's also needed (material files for example).

Quote:

But if a lot of the media can be grouped into one folder, it would be neater, but not neccessarily more logical ?

If I want to look for a .script file, I'm going to want to look in the progs folder, because that's where I would expect to find it.

Sure, I suggested to group custom content into one folder for each content type.
I see that adding a folder for each nick in the base directory isn't that good so I'm more than willing to compromise and learn, but if you create a folder "custom" in the base directory and store all the nick folders there you should be all set and have only one additional folder in view.

Now if you add a "custom" folder in each subcategory (progs, maps, camera...) you can maintain that nickname associated folder structure.
I hope no one tries to convince me that all users will be so kind to name their .script files in a way that you can identify them at a quick glance.
Some maps will require various script files and I think it would be a great benefit to have them grouped together in folders instead of a long mixed up file list.

And once you're finished with your work you want to distribute it, if possible without missing textures and scripts. Especially in this case I think it would be easier to simply pick the things from the individual folders than from one long list.

Quote:

As far as the Doom3 editing community goes, I think it will get as big as the QuakeIII editing scene, but mainly for MP maps. There's going to be a TON of lamers releasing total crap that will mess up your doom3 installation for the same reasons that BNA started this thread.

Well, yes

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:31 pm :

Ok - I guess there was some confusion added here by myself - I figured you wanted a custom folder in the base folder where you would add grouped media, but not a sub-folder in each.

Now I understand, yes, it's a totally logical idea.

In fact, id software are already doing that, as we can see - look in the maps and gui folders for examples.

It could be taken one step further :-

base/maps/bb_matt/bb_doommap1/
base/guis/bb_mat/bb_doommap1/

etc.

IOW, for each map by the authour, there's a sub-folder under the nick with the maps name. Possibly a bit over the top though

However, it would aid in finding all the media associated with a specific map quickly.

Hmm, in retrospect, it's no different from :-

base/maps/bb_matt/bb_doommap1.map
base/guis/bb_matt/bb_doommap1.gui

Heh - I'm confusing the issues again.

Basically, all that is added different from QuakeIII is more sub-folders - neat - I think that method is a sound and logical one.

One thing that was always logical with quakeIII naming was to name all your stuff after the name of your map, with your nick prefix in front of it - not everyone stuck to that tho.

e.g. :-

maps/bb_dm1.map
textures/bb_dm1/
models/bb_dm1/
sounds/bb_dm1/

There was also a failed attempt to get people to name thier .pk3 media type e.g. :-

map_bb_matt_dm1.pk3
model_bb_matt_chair.pk3

I never saw many people take that idea up - mainly because the majority of .pk3 files were map files anyway.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 4:27 am :

Here is my take on how things should be done.

All custom content should be distributed in *.zip files. The name of this zip should be in a format similar to this <AuthorName_ProjectName.zip>.

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list. Here is a rough example of what a file like this would look like.

Code:

--- readme.txt ---

Filename: RIB_CoolMaps.zip
Description: A series of maps created for play in Doom 3.
Author: rich_is_bored

Files Contained in Distribution
---------------------------------------------------
readme.txt
coolmaps.pk4

Files Contained in coolmaps.pk4
---------------------------------------------------
materials\rich\cool.mtr
progs\rich\cool_1.script
progs\rich\cool_2.script
progs\rich\cool_3.script
maps\rich\cool_1.map
maps\rich\cool_1.proc
maps\rich\cool_1.cm
maps\rich\cool_2.map
maps\rich\cool_2.proc
maps\rich\cool_2.cm
maps\rich\cool_3.map
maps\rich\cool_3.proc
maps\rich\cool_3.cm
models\rich\bridge.lwo
models\rich\door_part.lwo
guis\rich\keylock.gui
guis\rich\statusscreen.gui

Installing and playing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Copy coolmaps.pk4 into your Doom3\base directory. Type map rich\cool_1 at the console.

Viewing or editing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Rename coolmaps.pk4 to coolmaps.zip. Extract the files to the paths listed in the zip.

Now by distributing all your content in zip files along with a readme you don't have to explain how to install the files. And by containing the actual content in a second zip named as a pk4 it keeps the content separate from the retail content nor do technically uninclined people need to extract the content if they only intend to play it. And should they want to see how something was done or modify it instructions are provided explaining how to extract the files from the pk4.

I think it is the best and most organized way to distribute the content.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:05 am :

I agree 100% with rich's method.

edit: oh, except I'll personally beat anybody who calls a map "cool.map"

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:27 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Here is my take on how things should be done.

All custom content should be distributed in *.zip files. The name of this zip should be in a format similar to this <AuthorName_ProjectName.zip>.

RAR's maximum quality compression is so much higher than ZIP's that it's not even funny. It's time to give the zip format a rest. RAR is available for DOS, Windows, Linux, Mac, OS/2 and FreeBSD.

Case in point, the E3_3 map (19.7mb) compressed to 3.0mb while ZIP compressed it to 4.0mb (and that's using the new Maximum Enhanced Deflate introduced in WinZIP 9). Now imagine as the files start to pile up, not to mention bandwidth savings.

Quote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

Fine except for the last bit. It's alright for single player maps and small modifications but what about TCs. And while there are ways to dump directory contents to .txt files I'm thinking a lot of ppl will just skip this.

Quote:

Agreed.

As for the overall folder placement. IF all base folders worked the same (i.e. no maps having to be in base/maps, etc.) then I'd prefer BNA's solution: single folder with Nick in name as "root" for the person's modification instead of scattering through out the "official" folders. Let's see how the final game handles it.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:42 am :

Mordenkainen wrote:

It's true that RAR would save space over ZIP. However, it would be better to just stick to a file format that the majority of computer users are familiar with. Not to mention that the PK4 files contained within are nothing more than renamed ZIPs. Why point everyone to WinRar when they already have and are familiar with WinZip?

If server space is an issue, I don't think hosting content here was what was planned. That would make this site even slower than what it already is. I am sure some guy somewhere will end up making a Doom 3 custom content site for hosting your files.

Mordenkainen wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

When it comes to TCs usually it involves much more than a couple of map files and some new textures. It usually involves some form of patch to the game itself or special work involved in getting it to function. A good TC will include an installer or special instructions therefore, TCs don't really apply to this solution.

In fact, most TCs have their own dedicated websites where they can be downloaded from with screen shots, news, and a support section. It is very rare to find a quality TC that doesn't and is downloaded from a place like for instance, mapcenter and mapcenter alone.

As for people failing to list the files used in their custom content, it has to do with the quality of someone's work. It wouldn't take more than a minute to type up a file list. If they don't want to take the time to do everyone a favor and inform them of what they've put where, so be it. At least stick the files in a separate directory.

Mordenkainen wrote:

As for the overall folder placement. IF all base folders worked the same (i.e. no maps having to be in base/maps, etc.) then I'd prefer BNA's solution: single folder with Nick in name as "root" for the person's modification instead of scattering through out the "official" folders. Let's see how the final game handles it.

As things stand right now there are a couple of files types that only function when contained within specific folders while other types can be placed damn near anywhere. If I am not mistaken I believe material files need to be in the material folder.

Unless Id changes that, I think my solution is dead on. In the event Id allows you to place all types of files in a "special" folder sure BNA's nickname idea is great.

Just keep in mind that this would probably be the most organized way of doing things. It by no means is a standard. No one is obligated to adhear to it.

BNA!@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:23 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Unless Id changes that, I think my solution is dead on. In the event Id allows you to place all types of files in a "special" folder sure BNA's nickname idea is great.

I'm indeed laughing my ass off - when I look at your solution above I clearly see nickname folders for all and everything. After all finally someone has understood the logic in it.

The only thing that would still be needed is a place to store media content (textures, models, sounds) which should follow the same scheme.

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:20 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Because WinRAR can open (and create) .ZIP files.

Quote:

If server space is an issue, I don't think hosting content here was what was planned. That would make this site even slower than what it already is. I am sure some guy somewhere will end up making a Doom 3 custom content site for hosting your files.

Hmm... I didn't mention this because of Doom3World hosting or not the files. I'm talking generally. Server admins might not care for file size but everyone likes files smaller if possible.

Quote:

If TCs don't use this and they have much more files than maps or small modifications I don't see what is the benefit of listing the files. Especially since ppl can just open the .PK4 and see for themselves. Now if the listing included an explanation of each file that would be different. Personally I have no use for a simple file list.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:07 pm :

BNA, I was half asleep when I tried to battle wits in my last post.

Mordenkainen, I don't wanna get into some big argument as to why ZIPs are better than RARs or vice versa. Sure, WinRar can open zips, rars, this, that, ect... In fact, I use WinRar.

The reason I say we continue to use ZIP is Id prefers it. Why else would I have to rename a ZIP file to create a PK4?

But enough of this. I guess there is no perfect way to do things. There is no sense trying to influence good habits. People will distribute files the way they want regardless.

And on that note, I think i'll start distributing my custom content in ISO format. :lol:

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:12 am :

AZ wrote:

but when you want publish the map you have to include all textures in folders they were on moment of adding them to map e.g. "AZ\mapname\texturs\wall\" so this will give your nickname out if i dont want to ppl know my name for example?

Then create an alias for your nickname, a nick for your nick so to say when you create custom material shaders

TheCray_nz@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:46 pm :

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:28 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

No, but I indeed wanted to draft a new proposal (no joke) and email it to id software (as if they wouldn't have enough other work to do)

rich_is_bored@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:43 pm :

I don't think anyone here would ever agree on a standard. Chances are everyone and their mother is going to distribute their custom content how they like unless their forced at gunpoint.

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:59 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

... unless their forced at gunpoint.

=>>

rich_is_bored's signature wrote:

Rich "You can get more with a nice word and a gun than you can with a nice word." -- Al Capone

Qwertys@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:23 pm :

well for the most part, most developers will follow whatever standard ID sets forth.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:59 am :

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. :wink:

wardile@Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:32 am :

pc games will eventualy fall away to games played with a bit of lithium and electric shit that makes u feel u are their.

i already have a protoype for virtual valerie 2006.

feels like the real thing

Daaave@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:01 am :

So what difference does it make...?

I mean, if it's just a personal thing, and then all files are distributed in pk4 format anyway, why would it matter how you organise your files?

Personally I like BNA's idea to have a custom folder in the base directory with subdirectories for various projects and then subfolders for all the content (except for the stuff that HAS to be in their respective folders in the base dir)

I dunno though, I'm just a confuzzled widdle newb :lol:

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:11 am :

Code:

- Create a main folder in the base directory named by your nick.
- Within this folder create (two) subfolders named: models and textures
- store all your media in these two folders and of course appropriate subfolders (like characters, base_wall...)

Scripts (progs, cameras...):

Code:

- again create a folder within the individual doom folder (progs, cameras...) with your nickname and if you wish appropriate subfolders

Materials:

Code:

- please name the .mtr file by your nickname and if you create more of them increment the filename
- set up the materials NOT in a way to fit into the existing Doom materials
- set them up by your nickname and from there on go with base_wall or whatever you like to organize them and/or maintain the ease to identify the content category by a well picked directory name which ideally reflects the storage folders as described in the "media" storage suggestion above

Def files:

Code:

- see under "Materials"

Mapfiles:

Code:

- again make a folder named by your nick and proceed from there

Feel free to disagree below, but also please feel free to either make a better suggestion or to agree.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:55 am :

Agreed.
My base folder is already a catastrophic mess

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

rich_is_bored@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:04 pm :

Exactly what I was thinking.

That is unless the files are for a tutorial and need to be viewed or edited.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:05 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

Good for distribution, but a little bad for editing

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:18 pm :

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:43 pm :

I don't realease them tho...

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:49 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:01 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:05 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

Isn't that a nice and clean solution to store and find media content?
I mean it's not only textures which would sit there, it's also models, animations and so on.

Quote:

I guess we can agree to disagree here

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:13 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:27 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Actually I'm a very good and seasoned salesman

Quote:

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.

It could have been done better for a long time in my opinion

Quote:

LPlasma@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:22 pm :

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 2:40 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:05 am :

BNA! wrote:

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:37 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:46 am :

Yeah - your right - it tries to load a map outside of the maps folder, but comes up with an error :- call to unknown function 'camera_1' in idTrigger_Multi

Shoulda known it wouldn't work.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:32 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:58 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:03 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:16 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:47 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 4:14 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

No - it hasn't failed - it's useful to discuss this type of stuff.

I can see both sides - the old quakeIII way of doing it and the way that BNA is suggesting - a compromise can easily be reached.

I can't see it succeeding if everything is supposed to get handled the Q3 style.

Quote:

But I think TheCray_nz is right in the way the quakeIII mapping community will store thier files - a sub-folder nick in each appropriate base folder with the media in there.

Quote:

Well, yes

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:31 pm :

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 4:27 am :

Code:

--- readme.txt ---

Filename: RIB_CoolMaps.zip
Description: A series of maps created for play in Doom 3.
Author: rich_is_bored

Files Contained in Distribution
---------------------------------------------------
readme.txt
coolmaps.pk4

Files Contained in coolmaps.pk4
---------------------------------------------------
materials\rich\cool.mtr
progs\rich\cool_1.script
progs\rich\cool_2.script
progs\rich\cool_3.script
maps\rich\cool_1.map
maps\rich\cool_1.proc
maps\rich\cool_1.cm
maps\rich\cool_2.map
maps\rich\cool_2.proc
maps\rich\cool_2.cm
maps\rich\cool_3.map
maps\rich\cool_3.proc
maps\rich\cool_3.cm
models\rich\bridge.lwo
models\rich\door_part.lwo
guis\rich\keylock.gui
guis\rich\statusscreen.gui

Installing and playing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Copy coolmaps.pk4 into your Doom3\base directory. Type map rich\cool_1 at the console.

Viewing or editing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Rename coolmaps.pk4 to coolmaps.zip. Extract the files to the paths listed in the zip.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:05 am :

I agree 100% with rich's method.

edit: oh, except I'll personally beat anybody who calls a map "cool.map"

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:27 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Here is my take on how things should be done.

All custom content should be distributed in *.zip files. The name of this zip should be in a format similar to this <AuthorName_ProjectName.zip>.

Quote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

Quote:

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:42 am :

Mordenkainen wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

Mordenkainen wrote:

BNA!@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:23 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Unless Id changes that, I think my solution is dead on. In the event Id allows you to place all types of files in a "special" folder sure BNA's nickname idea is great.

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:20 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Because WinRAR can open (and create) .ZIP files.

Quote:

Hmm... I didn't mention this because of Doom3World hosting or not the files. I'm talking generally. Server admins might not care for file size but everyone likes files smaller if possible.

Quote:

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:07 pm :

BNA, I was half asleep when I tried to battle wits in my last post.

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:12 am :

AZ wrote:

Then create an alias for your nickname, a nick for your nick so to say when you create custom material shaders

TheCray_nz@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:46 pm :

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:28 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

No, but I indeed wanted to draft a new proposal (no joke) and email it to id software (as if they wouldn't have enough other work to do)

rich_is_bored@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:43 pm :

I don't think anyone here would ever agree on a standard. Chances are everyone and their mother is going to distribute their custom content how they like unless their forced at gunpoint.

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:59 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

... unless their forced at gunpoint.

=>>

rich_is_bored's signature wrote:

Rich "You can get more with a nice word and a gun than you can with a nice word." -- Al Capone

Qwertys@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:23 pm :

well for the most part, most developers will follow whatever standard ID sets forth.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:59 am :

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. :wink:

wardile@Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:32 am :

Daaave@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:01 am :

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:11 am :

Code:

- Create a main folder in the base directory named by your nick.
- Within this folder create (two) subfolders named: models and textures
- store all your media in these two folders and of course appropriate subfolders (like characters, base_wall...)

Scripts (progs, cameras...):

Code:

- again create a folder within the individual doom folder (progs, cameras...) with your nickname and if you wish appropriate subfolders

Materials:

Code:

- please name the .mtr file by your nickname and if you create more of them increment the filename
- set up the materials NOT in a way to fit into the existing Doom materials
- set them up by your nickname and from there on go with base_wall or whatever you like to organize them and/or maintain the ease to identify the content category by a well picked directory name which ideally reflects the storage folders as described in the "media" storage suggestion above

Def files:

Code:

- see under "Materials"

Mapfiles:

Code:

- again make a folder named by your nick and proceed from there

Feel free to disagree below, but also please feel free to either make a better suggestion or to agree.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:55 am :

Agreed.
My base folder is already a catastrophic mess

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

rich_is_bored@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:04 pm :

Exactly what I was thinking.

That is unless the files are for a tutorial and need to be viewed or edited.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:05 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

Good for distribution, but a little bad for editing

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:18 pm :

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:43 pm :

I don't realease them tho...

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:49 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:01 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:05 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

Isn't that a nice and clean solution to store and find media content?
I mean it's not only textures which would sit there, it's also models, animations and so on.

Quote:

I guess we can agree to disagree here

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:13 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 4:27 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Actually I'm a very good and seasoned salesman

Quote:

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.

It could have been done better for a long time in my opinion

Quote:

LPlasma@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:22 pm :

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 2:40 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:05 am :

BNA! wrote:

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:37 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:46 am :

Yeah - your right - it tries to load a map outside of the maps folder, but comes up with an error :- call to unknown function 'camera_1' in idTrigger_Multi

Shoulda known it wouldn't work.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:32 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:58 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:03 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:16 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 3:47 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 4:14 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

No - it hasn't failed - it's useful to discuss this type of stuff.

I can see both sides - the old quakeIII way of doing it and the way that BNA is suggesting - a compromise can easily be reached.

I can't see it succeeding if everything is supposed to get handled the Q3 style.

Quote:

But I think TheCray_nz is right in the way the quakeIII mapping community will store thier files - a sub-folder nick in each appropriate base folder with the media in there.

Quote:

Well, yes

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:31 pm :

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 4:27 am :

Code:

--- readme.txt ---

Filename: RIB_CoolMaps.zip
Description: A series of maps created for play in Doom 3.
Author: rich_is_bored

Files Contained in Distribution
---------------------------------------------------
readme.txt
coolmaps.pk4

Files Contained in coolmaps.pk4
---------------------------------------------------
materials\rich\cool.mtr
progs\rich\cool_1.script
progs\rich\cool_2.script
progs\rich\cool_3.script
maps\rich\cool_1.map
maps\rich\cool_1.proc
maps\rich\cool_1.cm
maps\rich\cool_2.map
maps\rich\cool_2.proc
maps\rich\cool_2.cm
maps\rich\cool_3.map
maps\rich\cool_3.proc
maps\rich\cool_3.cm
models\rich\bridge.lwo
models\rich\door_part.lwo
guis\rich\keylock.gui
guis\rich\statusscreen.gui

Installing and playing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Copy coolmaps.pk4 into your Doom3\base directory. Type map rich\cool_1 at the console.

Viewing or editing this content
---------------------------------------------------
Rename coolmaps.pk4 to coolmaps.zip. Extract the files to the paths listed in the zip.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:05 am :

I agree 100% with rich's method.

edit: oh, except I'll personally beat anybody who calls a map "cool.map"

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:27 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Here is my take on how things should be done.

All custom content should be distributed in *.zip files. The name of this zip should be in a format similar to this <AuthorName_ProjectName.zip>.

Quote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

Quote:

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:42 am :

Mordenkainen wrote:

rich_is_bored wrote:

A simple readme.txt contained in the zip can describe who was involved in creating the content as well as how to install it. Another thing to be included in this text file would be a file list.

Mordenkainen wrote:

BNA!@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 7:23 am :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Unless Id changes that, I think my solution is dead on. In the event Id allows you to place all types of files in a "special" folder sure BNA's nickname idea is great.

Mordenkainen@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:20 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

Because WinRAR can open (and create) .ZIP files.

Quote:

Hmm... I didn't mention this because of Doom3World hosting or not the files. I'm talking generally. Server admins might not care for file size but everyone likes files smaller if possible.

Quote:

rich_is_bored@Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:07 pm :

BNA, I was half asleep when I tried to battle wits in my last post.

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:12 am :

AZ wrote:

Then create an alias for your nickname, a nick for your nick so to say when you create custom material shaders

TheCray_nz@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:46 pm :

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:28 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

hey BNA, did we ever come to an agreement on this?
... LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

No, but I indeed wanted to draft a new proposal (no joke) and email it to id software (as if they wouldn't have enough other work to do)

rich_is_bored@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:43 pm :

I don't think anyone here would ever agree on a standard. Chances are everyone and their mother is going to distribute their custom content how they like unless their forced at gunpoint.

BNA!@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:59 pm :

rich_is_bored wrote:

... unless their forced at gunpoint.

=>>

rich_is_bored's signature wrote:

Rich "You can get more with a nice word and a gun than you can with a nice word." -- Al Capone

Qwertys@Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 7:23 pm :

well for the most part, most developers will follow whatever standard ID sets forth.

rich_is_bored@Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:59 am :

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. :wink:

wardile@Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:32 am :

Daaave@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:01 am :

StaticHavoc@Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:29 am :

BNA! wrote:

I'd like you to consider this idea to keep things organized for yourself and even more for others...

Maybe putting a "sample" directory down would better illustrate this... considering some of the explanations are a bit_ lacking in clarity.

Just my two cents

eskimo roll@Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:49 pm :

cusTom3@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:47 pm :

goliathvt@Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:54 pm :

Johnny B. Goode@Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:28 am :

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I usually am :oops:

If that were to be done, projects could be referenced simply by the file name, and content identification would be a breeze; no muss, no fuss, the trolls are dust.

For example:

which would appear like so in game:

Just my $0.02

Johnny[/i]

son_of_sam2@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:15 am :

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

der_ton@Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:38 pm :

son_of_sam2 wrote:

i am a map maker but unsure how to name individual rooms, as they stand they come up as unidentified, how do i change that?

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:11 am :

Code:

- Create a main folder in the base directory named by your nick.
- Within this folder create (two) subfolders named: models and textures
- store all your media in these two folders and of course appropriate subfolders (like characters, base_wall...)

Scripts (progs, cameras...):

Code:

- again create a folder within the individual doom folder (progs, cameras...) with your nickname and if you wish appropriate subfolders

Materials:

Code:

- please name the .mtr file by your nickname and if you create more of them increment the filename
- set up the materials NOT in a way to fit into the existing Doom materials
- set them up by your nickname and from there on go with base_wall or whatever you like to organize them and/or maintain the ease to identify the content category by a well picked directory name which ideally reflects the storage folders as described in the "media" storage suggestion above

Def files:

Code:

- see under "Materials"

Mapfiles:

Code:

- again make a folder named by your nick and proceed from there

Feel free to disagree below, but also please feel free to either make a better suggestion or to agree.

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 10:55 am :

Agreed.
My base folder is already a catastrophic mess

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

rich_is_bored@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:04 am :

Exactly what I was thinking.

That is unless the files are for a tutorial and need to be viewed or edited.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:05 am :

bb_matt wrote:

How about also packing them up into .pk4 files ?

Good for distribution, but a little bad for editing

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:18 pm :

bb_matt@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:43 pm :

I don't realease them tho...

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 2:49 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:01 pm :

bb_matt wrote:

That's pretty much what BNA is suggesting.

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:05 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

ooh sorry, I only looked over the textures one, where BNA was suggesting we create a sub folder in the base directory.
so I would have
base/thecray/textures

Isn't that a nice and clean solution to store and find media content?
I mean it's not only textures which would sit there, it's also models, animations and so on.

Quote:

I guess we can agree to disagree here

TheCray_nz@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:13 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 3:27 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

Actually I'm a very good and seasoned salesman

Quote:

There's nothing inherantly wrong with the way it's been done with the other games, it seems odd to go changing it now.

It could have been done better for a long time in my opinion

Quote:

LPlasma@Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 6:22 pm :

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:40 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 8:05 am :

BNA! wrote:

as for individual file naming, yes, we both have basically the same point of view there - append a prefix to keep it distinct.

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 8:37 am :

bb_matt@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:46 am :

Yeah - your right - it tries to load a map outside of the maps folder, but comes up with an error :- call to unknown function 'camera_1' in idTrigger_Multi

Shoulda known it wouldn't work.

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:32 am :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 11:58 am :

TheCray_nz wrote:

TheCray_nz@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:03 pm :

BNA!@Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 12:16 pm :

TheCray_nz wrote:

?? you're making far too big a deal about this BNA. Both methods are identical except for the textures and models.